Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[A&Ox6, MSN, RN]

XNavyCorpsman said:

When you have a Union you loose flexibility. I'll give you an example; Most of us Nurses want to adjust our work schedule so that we get more days off in a row. We can't because that would require the LPN's, which are Unionized, to adjust their contract. If you know anything about Unions, once you join a Union, you now work for the Union and NOT the hospital. The biggest thing is you loose flexibility.

I am not against unions per se, but I know that at my institution the union does get in the way at times. First of all, because the union is not nursing specific, concerns regarding staffing and ratios are not a priority. Instead of ensuring that I never have to be the only RN on a psych floor (which is very scary considering it's psych and I'm still really green) they talk about the skill mix and ensuring that the PCPs and other staff don't lose their jobs. I love that we have a diverse staff, but giving me a PCP who is not licensed, cannot do any documentation or assessment, cannot give Meds, cannot run groups, has no psych training, and is not allowed to run a code gray/blue or apply restraints, is unhelpful.

Also, the union is very strict about our weekend requirements. The nurses on my shift and floor can really work it out between ourselves to allow for our own preferences (some of us would rather Sunday, others rather Saturday and others rather Friday). However management is so scared of breaking union rules.

[XNavyCorpsman]

I am just going by my experience where I work side by side with Union nurses and non-union nurses.

[mpct]

Per a nurse who has been working at our hospital for 32 years, a few nurses tried to get union in our hospital and all were somehow let go or put under so much pressure that they voluntarily resigned.

The plot thickens. I am thinking to now put in a complaint with HR and Corporate Compliance for what I deem is unfit unsafe practice.

I am going to post the situation as a new thread and get a general idea of what to do what direction to take from here.

[TriciaJ, RN]

A&Ox6 said:

I am not against unions per se, but I know that at my institution the union does get in the way at times. First of all, because the union is not nursing specific, concerns regarding staffing and ratios are not a priority. Instead of ensuring that I never have to be the only RN on a psych floor (which is very scary considering it's psych and I'm still really green) they talk about the skill mix and ensuring that the PCPs and other staff don't lose their jobs. I love that we have a diverse staff, but giving me a PCP who is not licensed, cannot do any documentation or assessment, cannot give Meds, cannot run groups, has no psych training, and is not allowed to run a code gray/blue or apply restraints, is unhelpful.

Also, the union is very strict about our weekend requirements. The nurses on my shift and floor can really work it out between ourselves to allow for our own preferences (some of us would rather Sunday, others rather Saturday and others rather Friday). However management is so scared of breaking union rules.

There are some things that unions cannot do: it has been my understanding the staffing and ratios are not required to be negotiated per federal law. (Has this changed? Someone correct me if I'm out of date.) But there are still a lot of things unions can do. They can provide unsafe staffing documentation forms that are submitted to the powers that be outside of the hospital.

As far as weekend scheduling, have you really read the contract and checked with a shop steward? The contract requires that management can't make you work more than a certain number of weekend shifts. It doesn't usually prohibit flexibility if employees can work it out among themselves.

Actually, that is a standard management tactic: tell you the wonderful things they could do for you if the mean union didn't prohibit it. It's B.S. Develop a working relationship with your union reps and educate yourselves about your contract. You may be surprised at the crap your management is feeding you and blaming on the union.

[A&Ox6, MSN, RN]

TriciaJ said:

There are some things that unions cannot do: it has been my understanding the staffing and ratios are not required to be negotiated per federal law. (Has this changed? Someone correct me if I'm out of date.) But there are still a lot of things unions can do. They can provide unsafe staffing documentation forms that are submitted to the powers that be outside of the hospital.

As far as weekend scheduling, have you really read the contract and checked with a shop steward? The contract requires that management can't make you work more than a certain number of weekend shifts. It doesn't usually prohibit flexibility if employees can work it out among themselves.

Actually, that is a standard management tactic: tell you the wonderful things they could do for you if the mean union didn't prohibit it. It's B.S. Develop a working relationship with your union reps and educate yourselves about your contract. You may be surprised at the crap your management is feeding you and blaming on the union.

Actually, our contract states that the weekend requirement for full time staff is every other weekend two shifts in a row. So Friday/Saturday or Saturday Sunday for nights or just Saturday/Sunday on days. However, most per diems are only available on weekends or holidays. So we end up being required to do weekends and also pick up unwanted overtime during the week. However, our performs are paid a crazy high amount so...

[nrsadvocate]

I believe the most important issue that unions resolve is nurse-patient ratios. That's why unions are able to organize and get voted in by nurses. It's all about patient safety. I would like to hear from the nurses who are never short staffed and feel that their patients and nursing licenses are never in jeopardy because of short staffing. Do these hospitals exist??? Unions have nurse committees for the purpose of bargaining and negotiating, so that their members voices and needs are at the forefront. If union dues are the issue, just think about the cost of one mistake...it could cost your license and your career So where are the hospitals that staff their floors appropriately on a regular basis because I would like to apply for a job at these hospitals. Let's get real, hospitals are not going to provide safe staffing unless forced to do so.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

nrsadvocate said:

I believe the most important issue that unions resolve is nurse-patient ratios. That's why unions are able to organize and get voted in by nurses. It's all about patient safety. I would like to hear from the nurses who are never short staffed and feel that their patients and nursing licenses are never in jeopardy because of short staffing. Do these hospitals exist??? Unions have nurse committees for the purpose of bargaining and negotiating, so that their members voices and needs are at the forefront. If union dues are the issue, just think about the cost of one mistake...it could cost your license and your career So where are the hospitals that staff their floors appropriately on a regular basis because I would like to apply for a job at these hospitals. Let's get real, hospitals are not going to provide safe staffing unless forced to do so.

Agree.

And those who worry about union dues....the amount is minimal-and tax deductible.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

nrsadvocate said:

I believe the most important issue that unions resolve is nurse-patient ratios. That's why unions are able to organize and get voted in by nurses. It's all about patient safety. I would like to hear from the nurses who are never short staffed and feel that their patients and nursing licenses are never in jeopardy because of short staffing. Do these hospitals exist??? Unions have nurse committees for the purpose of bargaining and negotiating, so that their members voices and needs are at the forefront. If union dues are the issue, just think about the cost of one mistake...it could cost your license and your career So where are the hospitals that staff their floors appropriately on a regular basis because I would like to apply for a job at these hospitals. Let's get real, hospitals are not going to provide safe staffing unless forced to do so.

While nothing is perfect it is SO MUCH BETTER since our ratios went into effect January 1, 2004!

Until we elect new members of congress I think ratios will have to be done state-by- state or in union contracts.

National Campaign for Safe RN-to-Patient Staffing Ratios | National Nurses United

[SororAKS, ADN, RN]

I helped unionize a facility that was chronically understaffed. We were always told "We're a family", and "My door is always open" by administration but this did not pan out in either appropriate staffing levels or a real voice in the implementation of patient care.

I think that in the present political and healthcare climates that maximize profit over lives of patients and nurses, unions are entirely appropriate and necessary. Yes, management SHOULD treat nurses with respect and there should be someone who has the nurses backs but that isn't usually the case. We need something that gives us the legal clout to say NO to unsafe or bs conditions, and unionization is one thing that gives us a voice. Management talks a nice line but when push comes to shove it doesn't usually stick to what has been said. Unions give nurses a leg to stand on.

Professionalism is actually enhanced when we have a voice in patient care implementation and provision; as well as appropriate working conditions and good benefits. Professionals stick up for each other and advocate for these things instead of waiting for others to recognize them.

[I'm Nocturnal, BSN, RN]

I can not imagine not having a union. Admins do what they want to do. With a contract it is predictable, methodical and you have power and representation. I will never work for a non-union hospital again.

[I'm Nocturnal, BSN, RN]

I pray that PA passes safe nurse patient ratios. It is unsafe, even in a unionized hospital. My hospital will not agree on safe ratios because they "don't have to". PLEASE LAWMAKERS!!!!

[pmabraham, BSN, RN]

Because being in a union offers ZERO guarantees of anything being better. So you have less in your paycheck to support those who may not be doing a single thing to make things better. And if they help bad employees stay employed, then they take a part of your pay to make life worse.