Break this down for me Barney-style, since I'm not even a nursing student yet (I apply after this semester). I have seen a few posters here say that magnet hospitals are a crap place to work. When I googled "magnet hospital", all I could find were blurbs like this, that don't sound bad at all:
"The Magnet Recognition Program is a recognition program operated by the American Nurses Credentialing Center that recognizes healthcare organizations that provide excellence in nursing. It is considered the highest recognition for nursing excellence.[1] The program also offers an avenue to disseminate successful nursing practices and strategies. ANCC proclaims that "A growing body of research indicates that Magnet hospitals have higher percentages of satisfied RNs, lower RN turnover and vacancy, improved clinical outcomes and improved patient satisfaction."[2]"
These are obviously contradictory, but I'm sure that people are saying they're not the best place to work have some reasoning, since I've seen it more than a couple times.
Many (most?) major nursing employers would still be preferring BSN's because of the research showing better outcomes. Their desire for Magnet status is only a part of the explanation for the increased emphasis on higher education for nurses.
It's a pity you have to bring up the ADN/Diploma nurse and BSN issue again. Multiple threads on AN discuss the much touted "evidence" that claims the care BSN trained nurses provide results in superior patient outcomes.
Specializes in Medical-Surgical/Float Pool/Stepdown.
It's a pity you have to bring up the ADN/Diploma nurse and BSN issue again. Multiple threads on AN discuss the much touted "evidence" that claims the care BSN trained nurses provide results in superior patient outcomes.
Yep, considering the correlations between Aiken, the ANCC, and Magnet ! I would be more appreciate of the studies if they ever took into account the ratios of BSN, LPN to BSN, Diploma to BSN, ADN to BSN, etc nurses in these studies. Until then I will continue to attribute the BSN/Magnet push to be degree inflation, an excuse to cut nurses educational benefits, a way for a hospital to be a "brand whore", and a way for HR to more easily shorten their stacks and stacks of new grad applicants. For the record, I'm all for continuing education and making the BSN the standard for entry WITH grandfathering in those who are well deserved, but will continue my opinion that these arguments are just smoke and mirrors that use scapegoats such as Magnet (and some studies) to validate themselves (not posters opinions but opinions of the ANCC, etc).
Getting the feeling that some are salty about having to go back to school, and maybe rightfully so. I'll readily admit that I don't know enough to form an opinion on that, specifically within the nursing realm. I definitely could see it from a different angle from my previous career. Unfortunately, experience didn't usually add up to competence in that field, but that was an environment that went through a sudden, paradigm shifting change rather than a prolonged, evolutionary change.
To steer this back on topic and away from being another ADN vs. BSN dumpster fire of a thread, could some of you expand on a theme I saw in the responses? Several have said that other things fall by the wayside when a hospital makes a push for magnet status. What are the things that fell by the wayside? Did they let staff go, reduce hours, or purchase inferior supplies? I'm getting the feeling that applying to a hospital that is going to remain magnet or non magnet isn't cause for alarm, but I might avoid one that says it's planning to or is currently pursuing magnet status.
I suspect it has something to do with the massive clean up job, so to speak, that is done just prior to inspection to gain Magnet status and then how it all falls to the wayside once the status is gained. It actually highlights the difference between what should be and what is, with the hospital getting credit for being what "should be" without ever really being so in reality.
That actually makes a ton of sense. I can definitely see some parallels with my time in the Army there. Every time we had a "VIP" visit, we would completely alter our schedule, and not just to accommodate them as would be expected, but actually change all day to day operations to something more resembling the right way. Another example would be on Thursdays when we were supposed to be cut loose early for family time. This was never actually the case, unless it was found the division commander or post commanding general was in the immediate area. The running joke was that "it doesn't have to be good, as long as it looks good".
There are good and bad (as well as in-between) Magnet hospitals, just as there are good and bad, and in-between, non-Magnet hospitals. Part of the problem is the good ol' Law of Unintended Consequences. The ANCC originally dreamed up the Magnet designation as a means of recognizing hospitals that (already) were providing a great environment for nursing practice. A lot of the public believes that the Magnet designation is about good client care, but the original point was that these hospitals were "magnets" for nurses, by virtue of being great employers for nurses. Over time, as hospitals started realizing that the Magnet designation could be used as an advertising ploy, more and more hospitals wanted to get it. Lots of Magnet hospitals really are great employment environments for nurses. Lots of Magnet hospitals are places that put a lot of time and effort into making a good impression on the ANCC during their site visit, and then went back to Business As Usual once they had the certificate on the wall.
To me, the bottom line is that, unfortunately, the Magnet designation no longer really tells you anything about whether a hospital is a good environment for nurses and, although a lot of hospitals spend a lot of money (and the ANCC makes a lot of money) on the designation, it's pretty much meaningless (which is why, I believe, a number of hospitals have quit applying for recertification). You have to look deeper than just whether a hospital is Magnet designated or not
This, just like the first post I quoted, makes tons of sense to me. It's like when they put the cat turd on the fancy plate in Anchorman. Some hospitals are looking for all the trappings of being a great place to work rather than just being a great place to work, putting the cart before the horse, and any other way you'd want to express it.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I am a bit resentful that because we are working towards magnet status I am now needing to go back and get my BSN in order to have a chance at career advancement or even transferring within the hospital.
On the other hand, I would love to have magnet status if it meant having nurses be able to have more of a voice than they currently do with some of the decisions made by the upper management.
Unfortunately, Magnet status doesn't mean that nurses have more of a voice . . . it just means there's less money to spend on nursing salaries and benefits. Things get "dressed up" for the Magnet committee evaluations, but once that's over with things go back to "business as usual."
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I am a bit resentful that because we are working towards magnet status I am now needing to go back and get my BSN in order to have a chance at career advancement or even transferring within the hospital.
False. Magnet and the ANCC do NOT make any recommendations or requirements of the degree held by their floor nurses. The only requirement they have is that all nurse managers hold at least a BSN, and the CNO must have at least a MSN.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I had to research and write a paper on Magnet status for one of my classes. I went into it being very cynical about Magnet. After reading the research, it was fairly compelling to me that hospitals which have Magnet status have better patient safety rates, better patient satisfaction rates, better NURSE satisfaction rates, and are money-makers for the hospital (they definitely get a return on their investment).
Chen, J., Koren, M. E., Munroe, D. J., & Yao, P. (2014, October/December). Is the hospital's Magnet status linked to HCAHPS scores? Journal of Nursing Care Quality, 29(4), 327-335. http://dx.doi.org/10.1097/NCQ.0000000000000062
Evans, T., Rittenhouse, K., Horst, M., Osler, T., Rogers, A., Miller, J., ... Rogers, F. B. (2014, July). Magnet hospitals are a magnet for higher survival rates at adult trauma centers. Journal of Trauma & Acute Care Surgery, 77(1), 89-94.
Jayawardhana, J., Welton, J. M., & Lindrooth, R. C. (2014, May). Is there a business case for magnet hospitals? Estimates of the cost and revenue implications of becoming a magnet. Medical Care, 52(5), 400-406. Wolters Kluwer Health - Article Landing Page
Unfortunately, Magnet status doesn't mean that nurses have more of a voice . . . it just means there's less money to spend on nursing salaries and benefits. Things get "dressed up" for the Magnet committee evaluations, but once that's over with things go back to "business as usual."
I know that that is true in some hospitals, but it's not universal.
It might as well be, because the two are highly correlated! The desire to pursue magnet status usually means a push for most or all nurses to obtain a Bsn. It is definitely a latent consequence.
Getting the feeling that some are salty about having to go back to school, and maybe rightfully so. I'll readily admit that I don't know enough to form an opinion on that, specifically within the nursing realm. I definitely could see it from a different angle from my previous career. Unfortunately, experience didn't usually add up to competence in that field, but that was an environment that went through a sudden, paradigm shifting change rather than a prolonged, evolutionary change.
To steer this back on topic and away from being another ADN vs. BSN dumpster fire of a thread, could some of you expand on a theme I saw in the responses? Several have said that other things fall by the wayside when a hospital makes a push for magnet status. What are the things that fell by the wayside? Did they let staff go, reduce hours, or purchase inferior supplies? I'm getting the feeling that applying to a hospital that is going to remain magnet or non magnet isn't cause for alarm, but I might avoid one that says it's planning to or is currently pursuing magnet status.
That actually makes a ton of sense. I can definitely see some parallels with my time in the Army there. Every time we had a "VIP" visit, we would completely alter our schedule, and not just to accommodate them as would be expected, but actually change all day to day operations to something more resembling the right way. Another example would be on Thursdays when we were supposed to be cut loose early for family time. This was never actually the case, unless it was found the division commander or post commanding general was in the immediate area. The running joke was that "it doesn't have to be good, as long as it looks good".
This, just like the first post I quoted, makes tons of sense to me. It's like when they put the cat turd on the fancy plate in Anchorman. Some hospitals are looking for all the trappings of being a great place to work rather than just being a great place to work, putting the cart before the horse, and any other way you'd want to express it.
I think your use of the word "salty" is ridiculous and dismissive. How do you expect people to react when they are being extorted into paying thousands of dollars to do the same job for the same pay? To have their livelihood threatened. Are they supposed to jump for joy? What are you going to think when they say you need an MSN to clean up bodily fluids?
False. Magnet and the ANCC do NOT make any recommendations or requirements of the degree held by their floor nurses. The only requirement they have is that all nurse managers hold at least a BSN, and the CNO must have at least a MSN.
When our new hires three years ago were told they must have a BSN by the end of 2015, I was told it was because we were trying to get magnet status and the goal was 80% BSN nurses. Nurses even have a hard time transferring to other units within the hospital without a BSN, because each dept wants 80% BSN nurses. I never verified that this was a requirement but many hospitals are treating it like it is.
! I would be more appreciate of the studies if they ever took into account the ratios of BSN, LPN to BSN, Diploma to BSN, ADN to BSN, etc nurses in these studies. Until then I will continue to attribute the BSN/Magnet push to be degree inflation, an excuse to cut nurses educational benefits, a way for a hospital to be a "brand whore", and a way for HR to more easily shorten their stacks and stacks of new grad applicants. For the record, I'm all for continuing education and making the BSN the standard for entry WITH grandfathering in those who are well deserved, but will continue my opinion that these arguments are just smoke and mirrors that use scapegoats such as Magnet (and some studies) to validate themselves (not posters opinions but opinions of the ANCC, etc).
Susie2310
2,121 Posts
It's a pity you have to bring up the ADN/Diploma nurse and BSN issue again. Multiple threads on AN discuss the much touted "evidence" that claims the care BSN trained nurses provide results in superior patient outcomes.