Why is it inappropriate to stand up for yourself?

klone, MSN, RN · Jul 18, 2015

If it actually went down the way you describe, then no, you did not do anything wrong.

remotefuse · Jul 18, 2015

That is exactly what I said to him, no more, no less. And yes, that was what occurred before our interaction. He did not like that I answered a patients question with him in the room.

calivianya, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2015

Some providers are special snowflakes with God complexes. It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong.

Edit: Oh, if he was talking, and you raised your voice to talk over him, that's a little impolite. I would say at least wait until he is done talking to answer a question.

Whispera, MSN, RN · Jul 18, 2015

did you point and raise your voice?

remotefuse · Jul 18, 2015

I did point, I raised my voice to speak over him. I did not yell, and stayed calm the entire time.

Susie2310 · Jul 18, 2015

From your post history you are a new nurse. Without knowing what you said in reply to the patient's question, it is not possible to conclude that your answer, although not apparently directly related to the conversation the physician was having with the patient, did support his/her discussion with the patient. In my opinion, in these kinds of situations, one needs to tread very carefully. When the physician approached you angrily afterwards, stating that you had undermined his/her discussion with the patient, in my opinion it would have been appropriate to hold your tongue, and listen to the physician's objections, and try to understand the physician's point of view, instead of launching into defense mode. You say that you raised your voice to speak over him, and pointed; I suggest that in future you try listening first. The physician, not you, is in charge of the patient's care, and he apparently had specific reasons for objecting to what you said to the patient. The patient's needs are the most important here, not your need to stand up for yourself. From the limited information you provided, I cannot support your behavior.

BellionRN · Jul 18, 2015

Whether you undermined him or not, he has no right to yell at you in front of 15 other people. I understand the point some of the PPs make about hearing him out and seeing it from his perspective, but if he indeed came raging out and yelling at you, I see no reason why you need to extend him an ounce of respect by "seeing his POV".

You wouldn't let anyone else talk to you like that. A doctor is no different.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 18, 2015

From your post history you are a new nurse. Without knowing what you said in reply to the patient's question, it is not possible to conclude that your answer, although not apparently directly related to the conversation the physician was having with the patient, did support his/her discussion with the patient. In my opinion, in these kinds of situations, one needs to tread very carefully. When the physician approached you angrily afterwards, stating that you had undermined his/her discussion with the patient, in my opinion it would have been appropriate to hold your tongue, and listen to the physician's objections, and try to understand the physician's point of view, instead of launching into defense mode. You say that you raised your voice to speak over him, and pointed; I suggest that in future you try listening first. The physician, not you, is in charge of the patient's care, and he apparently had specific reasons for objecting to what you said to the patient. The patient's needs are the most important here, not your need to stand up for yourself. From the limited information you provided, I cannot support your behavior.

I tend to agree and am curious why the OP didn't add exactly what the patient asked and what her reply was so we might have a better understanding of both sides. If it was nothing medical, did he think she was derailing his post op instructions with chatter? etc. In my experience nurse managers are often supportive when a Doc behaves badly so that also makes me wonder what happened.

ktwlpn, LPN · Jul 18, 2015

Physicias are always in a hurry,they want to get in and get out of those discussions as quickly as possible.They also have a lot of information to impart in that short time.The patients question clearly demonstrated he or she had tuned out of the conversation.Quickly and kindly refocusing their attention towards the doctor would have been a better way to handle this..."We"ll talk about that when the doc is done,let's listen to what he has to say"........That said,I would not tolerate being yelled out and berated in front of a group of people.A better way to handle that is to take the power back and walk away....Raising your voice and pointing your finger is not professional or appropriate.A calm,quiet"We can talk about this when you speak to me in a civil manner" and walking away would do.....I love to almost whisper at people who are screaming at me-they just don't know what to do......

klone, MSN, RN · Jul 18, 2015

When the patient and physician were talking about the care plan, what did the patient ask you and what was your response?

Emergent, RN · Jul 18, 2015

We don't have enough information to make any sort of judgment on this situation. Not only are you leaving out what actually was said, but tone of voice. We can't give you any validation or advise based on this incomplete, one-sided account.