I am taking classes towards my BSN because like other nurses with a diploma or ADN I am being "forced" to return to school for my BSN. I have had my ADN for 9 years. My question is HOW is statistics, critical inquiry, and the other classes going to make me a better nurse? Isn't hands on training the best way to learn? I feel like they are requiring BSN now and in 10 years want MSN so that we wont need doctors working on the floors, because nurses will do their own orders!!
I am 42 y/o and rally don't want to do this, but I have a minimum of 23 years left of working and had to be forced to stay where I am due to not having a BSN. Sure they say we may be "grandfathered" in, but that limits us to stay put.
Anyone have any input on this, as to what am I going to learn getting my BSN and why the requirement now?
My hospital offers $2000 per year. Certainly that doesn't pay for much of it, but if you go to school part time -- over 3 or 4 years -- you should be able to get through one of our local state-supported institutions with minimal or no debt. I've known lots of people who have done that for their BSN's.
Graduate school is more problematic as it is more expensive.
Specializes in Cardiology, Cardiothoracic Surgical.
Side note for my area:
I don't know anyone, straight out of high school, that was able to get an ADN in 2 years and hit the floor running as a 19 or 20 year old. The CC programs in my area require at least a solid year's worth of pre-requisites (if one went during the summer) before even applying to the CC program. Most of these programs also require a CNA course and experience to be competitive. Then, one is often waitlisted for up to 2 years because demand far outstrips supply.
Grand total: it can take just as long to get an ADN here as a BSN. Hospitals are also preferring to hire BSNs due to the saturation of new grads on the market.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I don't know anyone, straight out of high school, that was able to get an ADN in 2 years and hit the floor running as a 19 or 20 year old.
I know dozens.
The CC programs in my area require at least a solid year's worth of pre-requisites (if one went during the summer) before even applying to the CC program. Most of these programs also require a CNA course and experience to be competitive. Then, one is often waitlisted for up to 2 years because demand far outstrips supply.
That is true for many CC programs. I didn't want to play that game and looked for and found a school, actually a whole system of CC's that do not require pre-reqs. Some of them do have waiting lists. Kind of gives high school students who know what they want to do an advantage as some of them get on the waiting list while still in high school and able to start their ADN program as 17 or 18 year olds and finish in two years. Every year we see 19 year old new grads in our nurse residency program.
ADN programs here, from start to finish run $6-7K.
Grand total: it can take just as long to get an ADN here as a BSN.
Hospitals are also preferring to hire BSNs due to the saturation of new grads on the market.
Oh I don 't believe for a second that it is the saturation of new grads that makes hospitals prefer BSN grads. It may well be the saturation that allows them to be so picky. Why else create the glut of nurses?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Actually I've seen many say that very thing...it is cheaper. Hands down, the ADN is cheaper. Although I think $58,000.00 for a ADN is pricey!
$58K!!!! That is crazy. That is more than a four year bachelors degree in one of my state's universities. That is more than a masters degree! I would seriously question the judgment of anyone who decided to pay that much. Start to finish an ADN in my state is about $6-7K.
T
he old ADN's, ready to retire in the next 7-10 years, are angry at being forced back to school because frankly it adds nothing to their actual practice.
I agree but I think that is at least part of the point. I think there are people who resent the fact that ADN nurses were able to enter the profession so quickly and cheaply and want to see them suffer.
I really do wonder if or when someday, the BSN grads 30 years later they are forced for their masters.....how understanding and a proponent of education they will be
Good point!
Down the road....does the facility with the BSN nurse actually have better outcomes? I would like to see studies in a non academic setting conducted by an entity that is NOT associated with the ANCC (who has a vested interest in Magnet status and financial gain from pushing their agenda). But that is just me.
Me too!
I think we need to move towards BSN entry because personally, I really am tired of the same argument over and over again. Although I do learn from every debate
I am not ready to pull the plug on ADN programs simple so we can avoid this debate. I honestly believe that the ADN programs bring a diversity to nursing that is a source of strength for nursing. I do not want to see nursing become like many of the other fields we work with in the hospital, mostly made up of bright young (mostly white) kids from advantaged backgrounds.
BSN required eventually (like after 2, 5, or 10 years of practice for example, is a separate issue than BSN for entry for me. I am against BSN only for entry.
I am opposed to requiring current ADN to obtain a BSN. I might change my mind if the BSN education became more meaningful.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I am not ready to pull the plug on ADN programs simple so we can avoid this debate. I honestly believe that the ADN programs bring a diversity to nursing that is a source of strength for nursing. I do not want to see nursing become like many of the other fields we work with in the hospital, mostly made up of bright young (mostly white) kids from advantaged backgrounds.
BSN required eventually (like after 2, 5, or 10 years of practice for example, is a separate issue than BSN for entry for me. I am against BSN only for entry.
I am opposed to requiring current ADN to obtain a BSN. I might change my mind if the BSN education became more meaningful.
I'm not ready to pull the plug on ADN schools yet either...but I believe it is inevitable that the BSN will become entry...I hope they know what they are doing when the do this for I can see this may cause issues. Time will tell. I'm not in favor of them requiring all ADN grads to get a BSN...it is insulting to someone with years of experience to be discreditied on the basis that they are lacking a few more college courses. I too might change my mind if the RN-BSN programs offered more than papers and busy work.
I'm not in favor of them requiring all ADN grads to get a BSN...it is insulting to someone with years of experience to be discreditied on the basis that they are lacking a few more college courses. I too might change my mind if the RN-BSN programs offered more than papers and busy work.
I'm not in favor for it EITHER...
My point in this discussion is to STOP the oft repeated myth that the BSN is "costly" and/or "stupid"; or the myth that BSNs feel "resentful" to ADNs- to paint BSN-prepared nurses as snobby rhymes with witches, does nothing to the discussion but to perpetuate and divide us as part of the entire team; there may b a percentage that feel that way, but that speaks to them having a personality issue IMHO.
I've had the recent experience of a supervisor that is an ADN who disliked me for my experience and education (she treated me differently after she learned I had a BSN), had me MOVED from the unit; she didn't want to work with me; that is the FIRST time I've had that happen to me professionally; degree insecurity-or just plain insecurity-can work both ways. I've been mentored by ADNs and diploma nurses; I was a diploma nurse! I was more shocked I was moved for DOING my job! But it happens, again, insecurity. Again, it's not just BSNs who are "resentful", intrinsic struggles in our profession happen REGARDLESS of what letters are behind our name.
There are far too many RNs with diploma and Associate Degrees that help shape out profession; I rather see them grandfathered in; their experience should NEVER be ignored; they help ELEVATE the profession, personally and help with the solution in shaping our profession for the future; they are NOT the problem, and the majority of nurses, I believe, "get it".
I stated in a previous post about my experience in an ADN program, as well as a BSN program and a diploma program (for PN). As well as nurses holding their noses and getting involved with whatever "forces" to take back the profession, getting to a reform on a quality education, along with a compromise on entry, even if it is BSN; there are so many variables in one getting a nursing education currently; many programs that are allowing ADNs bridge to their BSNs through CC programs that this is going to be LESS of an issue IMHO; we just need to push for grandfathering and educational reform.
I'm more about solutions more than "debating" amongst ourselves...
I don't understand why the confusion and the arguments of why a BSN degree is necessary.
BSN nurses are the preferred option over ADNs.
A BSN curriculum consists of more theory, more papers to right, more research etc, but we need all that to articulate our thoughts in a more organized and concise manner.
Please note I'm doing the LPN, then bridging to ADN and then to BSN because it was my choice and I need to work sooner, but I also understand that if I ever want to be marketable enough, I need a BSN degree, which I will obtain soon.
Nurses should be well-educated and knowledgable individuals in different areas not just nursing care.
My employer provides $5,250 a year in tuition reimbursement. My last 4-5 employers have provided some tuition reimbursement though I don't remember specifics as I was never interested before. I took my RN to BSN courses over 2 years. I really don't know the exact figure I paid for the whole course but I do remember I maxed out my reimbursement the first year, probably paid about $2,000 out of pocket and used $3,400 last year to finish up. So, the guesstimate would be around $10,000 with $2,000 out of pocket. That doesn't include the fact that I was a rabid book dealer, my work would pay (reimburse) for books, then I would sell them back and help cover some of the costs that went above reimbursement.
I just got my yearly review at work. Not just due to my degree attainment but more due to personal practice changes and work activities inspired by my school work, I am definitely getting one extra bump up on the raise and possibly doubling the standard raise. A completion bonus or change in base rate for BSN attainment is still pending but possible.
It's what you do with it folks. I could have completed all the required elements, graduated and still have been the same nurse. Though I initially saw it as a complete hoop-jumping activity I soon saw it as a real opportunity to learn and improve my personal practice. Could I have achieved these improvements on my own? Certainly! But very unlikely.
That is true for many CC programs. I didn't want to play that game and looked for and found a school, actually a whole system of CC's that do not require pre-reqs. Some of them do have waiting lists. Kind of gives high school students who know what they want to do an advantage as some of them get on the waiting list while still in high school and able to start their ADN program as 17 or 18 year olds and finish in two years. Every year we see 19 year old new grads in our nurse residency program.
ADN programs here, from start to finish run $6-7K.
I think this is very rare, the youngest GN I ever met personally were myself and fellow graduate at 21. I knew of a younger girl who had to wait to 18 to take NCLEX but she graduated HS at 16.
I know you sought out an ADN school that doesn't have many pre-reqs but this is also quite rare. I've never heard of one, though I have to admit I only know of the requirements of about 10 and not the entire nation.
I would say your local programs should be lauded and possibly replicated but they are not the standard.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Really? Have a source for that or was it a SWAG? Anyway, my hospital provides $5k/yr in tuition reimbursement.
We have two Magnet hospitals in the area. In 2010 one dropped it's tuition reimbursement completely. The other reduced it to $100/year according to my friends who work there. One of them is a very good hospital, the other isn't. Both are dropping their Magnet status. I work one of the very few (only one I know of) hospitals that has a program to pay for a BSN or graduate degree and a tuition reimbursement ($3K/year).
Again, it's not just BSNs who are "resentful", intrinsic struggles in our profession happen REGARDLESS of what letters are behind our name.
llg, PhD, RN
13,469 Posts
My hospital offers $2000 per year. Certainly that doesn't pay for much of it, but if you go to school part time -- over 3 or 4 years -- you should be able to get through one of our local state-supported institutions with minimal or no debt. I've known lots of people who have done that for their BSN's.
Graduate school is more problematic as it is more expensive.