I am taking classes towards my BSN because like other nurses with a diploma or ADN I am being "forced" to return to school for my BSN. I have had my ADN for 9 years. My question is HOW is statistics, critical inquiry, and the other classes going to make me a better nurse? Isn't hands on training the best way to learn? I feel like they are requiring BSN now and in 10 years want MSN so that we wont need doctors working on the floors, because nurses will do their own orders!!
I am 42 y/o and rally don't want to do this, but I have a minimum of 23 years left of working and had to be forced to stay where I am due to not having a BSN. Sure they say we may be "grandfathered" in, but that limits us to stay put.
Anyone have any input on this, as to what am I going to learn getting my BSN and why the requirement now?
I went to WGU and it cost me a grand total of $3600, all inclusive except for the $15 diploma sleeve I had to purchase. That's not typical, but even at two terms it would cost about 7K. I paid cash, no loans. So not all RN to BSN programs will leave you drowning in loans. :)
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I went to WGU and it cost me a grand total of $3600, all inclusive except for the $15 diploma sleeve I had to purchase. That's not typical, but even at two terms it would cost about 7K. I paid cash, no loans. So not all RN to BSN programs will leave you drowning in loans. :)
That is a very good deal. I wonder if the same would be true today. I ask because recently a RN I work with enrolled with WGU for their RN to BSN program. After a transcript review they sent her a list of 22 classes she needed to take. She went to a public community college ADN program 20 plus years ago. Several years ago I knew RNs who were getting their BSN through WGU in only 7-9 classes.
The nurse I am referring to decided not to enroll in WGU and instead enrolled in an RN to MSN program at the University of Arizona.
That is a very good deal. I wonder if the same would be true today.QUOTE]
I just graduated September 2013 (started June 2013). WGU tuition is the same today as it was then. :) I did have to retake some classes, but they went very quickly (I started June 2013).
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
How much was everyone's Rn to Bsn program anyway?
The list price of mine was around $27K. I have no idea how much my employer actually paid, I suspect far, far less. My hospital made a deal with one of the state universities who was desperate for a place for their regular BSN students to do clinicals. In exchange for allowing their pre-licensure BSN students to do clinicals in our hospital the university would offer an RN to BSN program to current employees right in the hospital.
The U was desperate for a hospital to do clinical in after losing one of their main clinical sites to an direct entry MSN program from another, private, university.
I didn't pay anything and I was often able to attend classes while on the clock and did nearly all the "work" while on paid time.
There was an opportunity cost for me. I missed out of some great training opportunities while I was in class or writing papers.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
That is a very good deal. I wonder if the same would be true today.QUOTE]
I just graduated September 2013 (started June 2013). WGU tuition is the same today as it was then. :) I did have to retake some classes, but they went very quickly (I started June 2013).
That is fantastic! I congratulate you for finding an affordable option. I am curious, how long had it been since you graduated from your ADN program?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Hasn't anybody taken advantage of the tuition assistance of their employer PLUS their state's RN loan forgiveness or repayment
That is interesting that the state of California has that program. I didn't know that. Neither the state I live in, or work in, offers such a program. I just checked after reading your message.
It's comes down to economics but to attain a BSN with the way things are right now in the industry, you are all INSANE. Here's why, 2 persons gone to school to be nurses. One went to a nursing school for 2 years and attained ADN, graduated took NCLEX's and found employment starting at 23.50 plus shift diff. Their education cost them 2 years of dedication and a total of 50,000.00 for the education. This person by-the-way signed a contract with the nursing school to work for their hospital partner for 3 years so didn't have to pay no where near the above amount. The other person went to a University for 4 years and attained a BSN-RN, graduated took NCLEX's and found employment and the same hospital, she paid $118,000.00 for her education with it's associate cost to a private University. Now HR did not want to reward for the BSN when hiring this 2nd RN, but wanted BSN-RN's to fulfill the job description in ICU. Only because this person worked at this hospital as a CNA for 10 years prior to being a BSN-RN and had BA's in duel majors did this person receive 3% pay diff to start with her BSN in ICU. Now this is where it's gets crazy, 3% of 22.50 is .70¢ an hour and working 36 hours a week that comes to 1872 hours a year X .70¢= $1,310.00 pay diff a year. This 2 additional years of schooling cost her $60,000.00 to attain the initials BSN to her RN, and gave up for an additional 2 year her life, with no income, or sleep (because having to work and study). This 2nd person did not get a deal for free education as the first person did for going to the hospital school of nursing nor was offered a signing contract to work at this hospital for 3 years to get back the $58,000.00 not to mention it's interest and the lose of income while going to school for the additional 2 years it took to attain the BSN. Now working it will take this 2nd person over 46 years to recoup that $58,000.00 for that 2 additional years of schooling. And to add salt to injury the first person after 2 years experience was able to transfer to ICU and receive a raise of $4.00 an hour and by next year will be free and clear of any loans by signing that work promise for the years with this hospital, while the BSN person will now start paying off the $118,000.00 in students loans along with it's interest which will end up being over $160,000.00 when done. So what is the fix? Simple force a National policy that BNS RN receive 15% pay differential. Even at that percentage it would take about 12 years just to get back the investment the student made for the 2 additional years of schooling, not counting the lost of income (and life) for those 2 additional years. Fellow Nurses, you need to remember that their would not be a hospital in the United States if it wasn't for nurses. Hospital's would be nothing more than out-patient-day-clinics if it wasn't for nurses. Can you image for one second a Dr. providing bedside care for a half dozen patients at night and on the weekends? Neither can I. BSN nurses are not needed on every floor to do every job but when they are needed and their education is being required pay them, and until that happens we are all insane.
It's comes down to economics but to attain a BSN with the way things are right now in the industry, you are all INSANE. Here's why, 2 persons gone to school to be nurses. One went to a nursing school for 2 years and attained ADN, graduated took NCLEX's and found employment starting at 23.50 plus shift diff. Their education cost them 2 years of dedication and a total of 50,000.00 for the education. This person by-the-way signed a contract with the nursing school to work for their hospital partner for 3 years so didn't have to pay no where near the above amount. The other person went to a University for 4 years and attained a BSN-RN, graduated took NCLEX's and found employment and the same hospital, she paid $118,000.00 for her education with it's associate cost to a private University. Now HR did not want to reward for the BSN when hiring this 2nd RN, but wanted BSN-RN's to fulfill the job description in ICU. Only because this person worked at this hospital as a CNA for 10 years prior to being a BSN-RN and had BA's in duel majors did this person receive 3% pay diff to start with her BSN in ICU. Now this is where it's gets crazy, 3% of 22.50 is .70¢ an hour and working 36 hours a week that comes to 1872 hours a year X .70¢= $1,310.00 pay diff a year. This 2 additional years of schooling cost her $60,000.00 to attain the initials BSN to her RN, and gave up for an additional 2 year her life, with no income, or sleep (because having to work and study). This 2nd person did not get a deal for free education as the first person did for going to the hospital school of nursing nor was offered a signing contract to work at this hospital for 3 years to get back the $58,000.00 not to mention it's interest and the lose of income while going to school for the additional 2 years it took to attain the BSN. Now working it will take this 2nd person over 46 years to recoup that $58,000.00 for that 2 additional years of schooling. And to add salt to injury the first person after 2 years experience was able to transfer to ICU and receive a raise of $4.00 an hour and by next year will be free and clear of any loans by signing that work promise for the years with this hospital, while the BSN person will now start paying off the $118,000.00 in students loans along with it's interest which will end up being over $160,000.00 when done. So what is the fix? Simple force a National policy that BNS RN receive 15% pay differential. Even at that percentage it would take about 12 years just to get back the investment the student made for the 2 additional years of schooling, not counting the lost of income (and life) for those 2 additional years. Fellow Nurses, you need to remember that their would not be a hospital in the United States if it wasn't for nurses. Hospital's would be nothing more than out-patient-day-clinics if it wasn't for nurses. Can you image for one second a Dr. providing bedside care for a half dozen patients at night and on the weekends? Neither can I. BSN nurses are not needed on every floor to do every job but when they are needed and their education is being required pay them, and until that happens we are all insane.
Sure, that works out in the carefully constructed, detailed scenario you invented in order to present a situation in which the ADN-prepared person clearly comes out ahead. It would be just as easy to invent a fantasy scenario in which the BSN path is clearly the much better option. Neither proves anything.
Whenever one of these discussions is happening here, lots of people keep harping on the amount of student debt involved in nurses returning to school to complete BSNs as if crippling levels of student debt is simply a fact of life. I returned to school to complete a BSN at a nearby state university many years after graduating from my original hospital-based diploma program. I don't recall how much it cost me, but I do know that I was easily able to pay for the program out-of-pocket as I went (working full-time and going to school part-time), without even considering taking out any student loans. I did take out some loans for graduate school, but only the minimum amount necessary after factoring in a few scholarships I was able to get and working part-time through my graduate program (full-time during the summer and holiday breaks). The investment was well worth it and it was no hardship at all to pay the loans off. If further education is something people want, there's always a way to make it work. People who don't want it can always come up with a kazillion reasons why it's not feasible.
What I don't get is WHY do people use the "BSN is not cheaper" argument, especially when there are people who are second career changers that may have debt already and could be in the same boat in the example as a ADN?
BSN doesn't always equal "expensive"; most graduate with a reasonable amount of debt; I know I did, and to say that someone is insane to get a BSN without knowing the benefits of the person, is, in fact, moot.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Thank you elkpark.
What I don't get is WHY do people use the "BSN is not cheaper" argument, especially when there are people who are second career changers that may have debt already and could be in the same boat in the example as a ADN?
BSN doesn't always equal "expensive"; most graduate with a reasonable amount of debt; I know I did, and to say that someone is insane to get a BSN without knowing the benefits of the person, is, in fact, moot.
Actually I've seen many say that very thing...it is cheaper. Hands down, the ADN is cheaper. Although I think $58,000.00 for a ADN is pricey!
The old ADN's, ready to retire in the next 7-10 years, are angry at being forced back to school because frankly it adds nothing to their actual practice. I really do wonder if or when someday, the BSN grads 30 years later they are forced for their masters.....how understanding and a proponent of education they will be....but that can only be played out in real time.
I think BSN's are frustrated that they have spent more money on their education and come out making the same as the nurse who didn't. I will be honest...when they are both new grads the ADN is a little better equipped for the floor although the BSN will have better opportunities and catches up quickly.
At the starting gate a new grad is a new grad is a new grad. Down the road....does the facility with the BSN nurse actually have better outcomes? I would like to see studies in a non academic setting conducted by an entity that is NOT associated with the ANCC (who has a vested interest in Magnet status and financial gain from pushing their agenda). But that is just me.
I think we need to move towards BSN entry because personally, I really am tired of the same argument over and over again. Although I do learn from every debate.
smartnurse1982
1,775 Posts
Most employers don't offer tuition assistance.
That has been that way since the recession.
I know one of my agencies has a $5000 scholarship,hardly enough to even pay for one semester.
Even if you apply,you might not get that amount,so why bother?
Oh,and its only awarded once every 5 yrs.
How much was everyone's Rn to Bsn program anyway?