Why is the general feel to this board that the Board of Nursing is 'out to get' us

7 hours ago, Indiana RN said:

So someone should pay for their crimes more than once? Statistically children of addicts have a higher chance of becoming an addict themselves. Should everyone who has an alcoholic parent be in a 3-5 year program with random drug testing employee quarterly report requirements because they might be "tempted" to divert. I've noticed a lot of addicts in my NA meetings are victims of sexual assault, should rape/molestation victims also be put in these programs because they might be tempted to divert?

Like I said, I am in fact an addict and getting caught saved my life. I'm so blessed the board gave me a chance and let me keep my license. But there are definitely wrinkles in this system.

Oh no I fully agree that there are wrinkles in the system and there are those that the programs have been a positive presence in their lives, allowing treatment and the ability to keep their careers. There are also those that have been subject to the program unfairly and undeserving of the punishment that they have received. Should people be punished twice for a mistake made? In my opinion no, but I am not an investigator nor a member of the BON. I am a victim of sexual abuse and domestic violence but have not ever diverted, but that's not the same for everyone. And I do not believe that every punishment is fit for each situation.

It's interesting to me how people use the words 'punishment' and 'sentence' when it comes to these programs and monitoring. All of it stays confidential and you keep you license in most of them. I'd do anything to be back in a program like that. Being a nurse isn't a right its a privilege. At the end of the day, no matter how angry or upset you might be, the nursing board and the monitoring program are there to protect the public - not you. I was talking to a friend about what I'm dealing with and he said "you ever been in jail?" ?

7 hours ago, chadprepton said:

It's interesting to me how people use the words 'punishment' and 'sentence' when it comes to these programs and monitoring. All of it stays confidential and you keep you license in most of them. I'd do anything to be back in a program like that. Being a nurse isn't a right its a privilege. At the end of the day, no matter how angry or upset you might be, the nursing board and the monitoring program are there to protect the public - not you. I was talking to a friend about what I'm dealing with and he said "you ever been in jail?" ?

At the risk of starting another lengthy thread....

For people stuck in these things inappropriately (not saying that a stint might be unnecessary, but not with the hefty length of time/employment damaging stipulations) yes, it is punishment and a sentence. When your entire life is turned upside down, your retirement savings and everything you’ve worked for gets yanked away for the “crime” of being ill, it’s punishment. When you are are told you must be employed to get the contract to end, yet said contract has stipulations that prevent that, that’s punishment. When you are cashiering in a grocery store with a bachelor’s degree and 15 years of experience in nursing, that sure as heck feels like a sentence. I could go on....

As far as confidential...No. it does not ‘all stay confidential.’ Self reporting is encouraged supposedly to allow that measure of confidentiality. Well, I can unequivocally say, it does not. My license will always have a black mark and the exacerbation of my illness will always be out there for anyone who wants to read about it. Even after the contract is mercifully ended, I will have to forevermore (in any job interview or whenever my license is verified, be prepared to explain this nightmare. So nope, not confidential.

Yes, the BONs thing is ‘protect the public.’ The program’s? I’m of the opinion that the only thing being protected is the bottom line, at the expense of good nurses who had the audacity to be human.

It’s great that you think the these programs are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe for you, it is and that’s great that there is something like this. For those of us who describe it as “punishment and a sentence,” we have good reasons to.

I have never had any direct dealings with the BON. But my experience with most organizations has lead me to have an overall feel that everyone is out to protect themselves and they will make anyone a scapegoat to save their own skin. I believe nursing to be a two-faced bear, one side says “the nurse is responsible for everything” and the other saying “this is your scope of practice”. I have read stories of suspension through the 3 BONs that I am licensed in that make me feel like giving my license back right then. Hospitals have protocols and poorly educate the nurse and then a mistake happens and all the blame goes to the nurse. Then the BON takes that nurse’s license away because she ‘didn’t follow protocol’ a protocol she was probably never taught appropriately, and now she looses her livelihood but nothing happens to the institution that is actually putting the public in danger?! That is what is happening in nursing today. I have traveled to many institutions and can tell you that the nurse education is quick and poor in 95% of them. Nursing schools are teaching the NCLEX but not teaching the students how to be an effective nurse....and then the BONs responsibility is to judge a case based on one instance in time without looking in the flaws in the system as a whole and only holding one person responsible? Whatever. I think drug abuse cases are one thing, but some of the crap in my BON letters are just stupid. I don’t trust the BON to protect me as a patient or my profession as a whole.

I am in monitoring for a reason and I agree with that reason. That being said, some of the things that happen to participants who earned a legitimate spot are still unethical. Because of a recent accusation, one of my group members was set back almost 2 years. She'd long since worked off her key restriction and been employed for two years after it was lifted with no problems. She made the mistake of taking a new job, closer to home. That's IT! At 4 years in, one of the IVs was beeping in the rooms of a patient whose nurse was MIA (probably shooting up somewhere). I've said it before and I'll say it again, WE IPNers aren't the ones you need to be worried about. It's the nurse you haven't caught yet. Who in the hell goes MIA on a UNIT?! Anyway, my friend silenced the alarm about the time a supervisor came around the corner. The supervisor says, "what are you doing?!" And promptly reports her for intending to divert. Not diverting, because she didn't. Intending... in the supervisors estimation. Her second day off of orientation she was sent to the ER, CHARGED for that care, all tests including hair were negative. Her narcotics restriction was reinstated for a year. And now she has to try and find a way to work with this woman who knows nothing more about her than she's in IPN.

Because of this, I'm considering quitting my job the day my key restriction is lifted and volunteering through the remainder of my contract. Or working someplace no narcs are present.

Say what you want, this is not ethical. Nothing about this nurse's behavior or drug screen suggested she was diverting. Saying that we deserve this is just some glorified brown nosing. My response is: wait until it happens to you. You will not be so forgiving.

13 hours ago, chadprepton said:

It's interesting to me how people use the words 'punishment' and 'sentence' when it comes to these programs and monitoring. All of it stays confidential and you keep you license in most of them. I'd do anything to be back in a program like that. Being a nurse isn't a right its a privilege. At the end of the day, no matter how angry or upset you might be, the nursing board and the monitoring program are there to protect the public - not you. I was talking to a friend about what I'm dealing with and he said "you ever been in jail?" ?

Your blanket statement isn't true for everyone though. Many states do not have confidential programs or the confidential programs are really hard to access. I've seen nurses lose licenses over nuances in the monitoring contract or mistakes in UA testing/results or from not being able to afford the program -- not from actual relapse.

You're so intent on proving the privilege of these programs that you seem to be ignoring your own privileges? People can certainly spiral into profound financial crisis from these programs. Over half of all Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Throw in a mortgage, a few kids to support, student loans, etc and, yeah, losing your house or having to file bankruptcy can feel like punishment. Yes, removing a nurse from the job might be necessary to protect the public but you can't begrudge someone who may have lost everything the feeling that they are being punished.

I've spent a bit of time in jail and I've spent a lot of time locked on some not-so-nice psych units. Did your friend mean prison? I would take the boredom of jail over many of the psych units I've been on. And I'd take the boredom, cavity searches, and terrible food of both places over being screamed at by another healthcare professional about the formatting of a UA result.

Well, okay then.

catsmeow1972: You're telling me when you self-reported it wasn't confidential at that point?

When did I say anything close to something like"these programs are the greatest thing since sliced bread."? I'm well aware they are not. Its better than not being a nurse though.

KalipsoRed21: You don't have to trust the BON. I stated what their intension was, mainly not to protect us.

Persephone Paige, ADN: Never said it was ethical. "Saying that we deserve this is just some glorified brown nosing" When did I say we deserve this?

Dirtyhippiegirl. Yes, my friend met jail and he's also been in prison. He mentions it for perspective. As my perspective goes I'd prefect monitoring than not working at all. Of course I could be in jail/prison with no way of making money, and not being a nurse. You're telling me that jail is better than working as nurse for you? I have endured the finical hit just like many people. I have kids. I have a mortgage. I have student loans. People can feel any way they want. I guess I begrudged you because I said it was interesting? Which state doesn't have a monitoring program?

Chadprepton...you’ve got your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, however picking apart people’s statements/answers, whenever someone states thier opinion is really not cool. We have all had our own experiences with various BONs and/or programs. Some folks are grateful, many are not. Not all programs are run the same or are as punitive as others.

This site is where we come for support from folks enduring the same things we are. A lot of times we are simply venting because nobody outside of nursing can quite understand how a lot of this is even legal, never mind ethical. However it is and we have to deal with it.

As best as I can tell, you are satisfied with your program and your experience. I am happy for you. For the rest of us, please stop challenging our experiences as somehow deficient in your eyes.

<<<<steps away from discussion now.

All I'm going to say is that I used to be where you are, Chad. I spent 10+ years without a license, got my shot to get back in and I was grateful for it. I have no problem with protecting the public. For the most part, I've seen success. But I have also seen extreme prejudice used against participants for no other reason then because they are participants. If the same tactics were used against a non-participant, they would not hold water. The only hope we have is to get out. And it is very possible to come in contact with a supervisor or a coworker that has an ax to grind with addicts/alcoholics, they can and will report you over and over again and NO ONE will protect you.

I self reported and anyone can look up my name and see everything I did and what the repercussions of those actions cost me. ( is that better wording than punishment?)

Self reporting is great, but it will not remain confidential. I have had to ask the local RN nursing school instructor to pass my narcotics. If you think your business stays private you're still high.

I think this is really a bigger topic. One I argue with my friends a lot when speaking of politics. The conversation always starts out about the police, an airline, the environment but basically boils down to safety vs. liberty/privacy. If there was a scale of 1-10 where safety is regarded the up most importance is rated a 1 and liberty/privacy is a 10; well my line of thought is somewhere around an 8. BON maybe protecting the public, but the law deals with criminals, not the BON. If a patient is hurt and the nurse is on something the family is allowed to take that nurse to court. Their should be better privacy with these programs. And there should be a due process, not just someone accused the person out of spite or hate and “just in case there is some truth to it we are going to screw with their income and livelihood”. To me that is asinine.