When attending a traditional BSN program, are students told they're better than ADNs?

subee, MSN, CRNA · Mar 1, 2014

I know of two programs that do have that mentality and it is about two or three instructors who push that mentality onto students. The other BSN program? No issues. Honestly though, going to a crappy BSN program will not make them a better nurse than someone who goes to a rigid and excellent ADN program so people should look at programs instead of just the letters they put after their name.
Not clear. You're saying that you know of two BSN programs that push the mentality that "BSN's are
superior to ADN's" or are they saying "Good thing you're getting your BSN. You're ahead of the pack "? Anyone who purports that one class of individuals is innately superior to others is a a very stupid person because we know that many people with no educational credentials have done some pretty extraordinary things (Bill Gates, etc.) However, people who refuse to get a BSN take the risk of becoming a dinosaur in the middle of their careers.

cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 2, 2014

This is a perfect example of lateral violence, eating our young, or bullying. What ever you want to call it, it is all the same and it should stop in the beginning in nursing school. I am a Director of a Practical Nursing and CNA program. I started out as an LPN and worked for 10 years in critical care when they decided to phase out LPN's from the ICU. I oriented many a new grad BSN and ADN to charge nurse role because I could not be one as an LPN. A new grad is a new grad. Some pick up things faster than others but all have a lot to learn. The more we learn the more we realize the less we know. Continuing education has little to do with the practical skills that nurses deliver and more to do with how we think, and learn to think outside the box. No matter the level, some are better than others at doing this. Why is it as nurses we feel like we have to eat our young, should we not be praising those who choose to continue their education and praise those for the quality of work they do at what ever level they choose to stay at. Nursing is Lifelong learning and whether we choose to continue on to obtain a degree or we choose to become certified in the area we work, every person is needed and should be excepted for their choices. What would a facility be like without housekeepers and maintenance, CNA's, LPN's RN's ADN, BSN, Doctors. None of us can do the job alone, we need each other as a team to give our patients the quality of care they deserve. As an MSN, Ed. I am not above helping to clean the bottom of a patient, and I will not walk out of a patients room to call on a CNA to do it when I am already there, unless I am in the middle of an emergency. We are responsible for our own behaviors and must take the high road. I do not want others to have to go through what I did, I do not see this as a right of passage, I see it as growth and change that we all should be adapting too.

Nola009 · Mar 2, 2014

Wow. I said that I support continuing education and am even in pursuit of a higher degree myself and the majority of people STILL read this as education-bashing/shaming. Don't be a hypocrite! It's the other way around. Does anyone here really comprehend the English language in written form?! I asked a sincere question and most of you didn't understand or address my actual Q. I'll definitely think twice before (attempting) to engage you people on AN. What a bore.

BusiestBSN · Mar 3, 2014

I attend a traditional BSN program & have never been told to or coerced into thinking this way.

I only ever hear about this "concept" of superiority from certain ADN nurses or students who assume that is the BSN mentality.

cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 3, 2014

I'm actually going to try to respond to this.

I agree with you that there are those who are insecure enough with themselves to degrade others worth. As a Director of a Practical nursing program, I see how the ADN nursing students treat them and I believe this behavior and attitude rolls down hill. I also believe that it is my responsibility to try to stop this behavior while I have them as students. I tell my students to take the higher road.

My response was written in first person and I was speaking of myself and how I have tried to handle the situations. I have worked on every level and have felt the degradation from others including doctors. It is unacceptable.

If you are going on to further your education for yourself, I think it is wonderful as long as you are not doing it because of how you have been treated.

This is an important issue and studies continue, but until all nurses decide it is unacceptable unfortunately it will continue for we are humans and we are imperfect.

I am not sure what you are speaking of when you talk about hypocrisy so I will have to pass on that.

We have to manage our own behaviors. When you have found others doing or saying the wrong thing, as a patient advocate have you found appropriate resource or EBP information to hand them and let them know through proof that you indeed know what you are talking about, this could be a way of settling them down, but if they are insecure enough about themselves to bash others then I am afraid it could make things worse.

I hope this helps clarify what I had previously stated.

Nola009 · Mar 3, 2014

Thank-you, cinlou. I don't agree with bashing anyone, either. The degrees we each hold are not an exact reflection of our intellect. There are good and bad of every type, I'm sure. We know that includes doctors too, lol! I really wanted to get my BSN so that #1 I could gain employment at a hospital (they want BSNs in my area now) and that one day I might become a CNA instructor &/or maybe even move on to become a nursing instructor. I don't wanna tear people down and I don't want others doing that to me, either. I find that type of behvior incredibly immature and have been disappointed to find so-called professionals behaving like HS brats!!

cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN · Mar 3, 2014

Keep moving along it took me 35 years to get to where I am as a Director of both LPN and CNA programs, we are in desperate need of quality caring teachers to help provide and turn out caring individuals. I became an educator because I had hope that I could change some of the behaviors I have seen and experienced over my years. Good luck in whatever you decide to do, and keep to the higher road.

PjRn86 · Mar 3, 2014

Adn has more clinical hrs and training while bsn have more theory while starting out as a brand new nurse. However after that it's based on the individual and what they're expose to and willing to learn.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Mar 3, 2014

Adn has more clinical hrs and training while bsn have more theory while starting out as a brand new nurse. However after that it's based on the individual and what they're expose to and willing to learn.

Unless you have entered a generic BSN program; the first part of your response is purely conjecture...

As someone who has the uniqueness of enrolling in an ADN program, PN program, then BSN program-I have a uniqueness of knowing, at least in my area, the clinical/theory hours viewpoint people love to take, when the reality is ADN and BSN programs are THE SAME-even down to clinical hours and theory hours-they are coded differently due to regulations set forth due to one being in a community college setting and those particular requirements for meeting a Associate Degree credit hours versus a Bachelor Degree credit hour requirement.

It would be best to keep the hyperbole down about educational background and address how there are people in this profession that love to make assumptions and diminish another's educational background and hold their own in high regard (as you appear to be doing), forgetting that ACTUAL clinician practice and moving from novice to expert SUCCESSFULLY for the sake of OUR patients is the most paramount issue and the reason we stay in business, NOT clinical hours, or degree even-and to respect our peers clinical practice.

COMPETENCY wins above all in this business; it's best to respect THAT. :yes:

Kipahni, RN · Mar 5, 2014

Adn has more clinical hrs and training while bsn have more theory while starting out as a brand new nurse. However after that it's based on the individual and what they're expose to and willing to learn.

Actually all schools regardless of the program have to meet their clinical hours as stated by their state board of nursing. Which is usually around 1,000hrs.

Now the QUALITY of their clinical sites do vary based on availability and curriculum. It is also up to the individual to do their research into any program and find what matches ones career aspirations.

In that respect I do agree with you that it is up to the individual to make the most of their clinical experience.

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 5, 2014

Adn has more clinical hrs and training while bsn have more theory while starting out as a brand new nurse. However after that it's based on the individual and what they're expose to and willing to learn.

That is simply not true across the board. There may be some individual ADN programs that have more clinical hours than a particular BSN program. But as others have pointed out, it is not true in all regions of the country. It is definitely not true where I live.

You also have to consider the quality of any clinical hours. I know some schools in which the faculty are not qualified to practice in the specialties in which they teach. Their students' clinicals consist mostly of standing around wathching. I know other schools where most clinical faculty members actually practice part time in the facilities where they take their students -- and those students receive a much more in-depth experience.

The "ADNs" get more clinical training is something that people say because it sounds good -- and sounds like a good justification for choosing an ADN program or grad over a BSN one. It's not based on any real widespread data.

Susie2310 · Mar 5, 2014

The "ADNs" get more clinical training is something that people say because it sounds good -- and sounds like a good justification for choosing an ADN program or grad over a BSN one. It's not based on any real widespread data.

I agree that it's never good to generalize, but it actually was the truth in my geographical area, and in my particular case, when I was a nursing student. My ADN program had clinicals two days a week and during summer school, and the majority of the instructors worked as bedside nurses in the hospitals we did our clinicals at. My clinicals took place at four different hospitals including a locked psych unit, psych ER, and a long term care facility. When I bridged to BSN at a state university directly after completing my ADN, I heard students in their final semesters tell me that they had received hardly any clinical training, and didn't feel ready to be nurses. Their lack of training was evident in the community health practicum we took together.