I'm in an associate degree RN program. I have a previous BA in Psychology and just finished up my last two classes online to also get my BS in Business Administration. I have worked for over a year as a PCA at a local hospital and also work as a supplemental instruction leader to help incoming nursing students do better in their first and second quarters. Yet all the nursing recruiters at the hospitals I'm looking at say that without a BSN, none of that will matter and my odds of getting hired are slim to none since I am competing with 4 well respected BSN programs.When asked why, all the hospitals said it is a requirement for Magnet status. From what I can tell, the requirements in terms of degrees for Magnet status are:
1. The CNO must have at a minimum, a master's degree at the time of application. If the master's degree is not in nursing then either a baccalaureate degree or doctoral degree must be in nursing.
2. Effective 1/1/2011 - 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)
3. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)
4. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% of nurse leaders must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)
By the AANC's definition, most nurses don't fall under any of these cateogories. A nurse leader is a nurse with line authority over multiple units that have RNs working clinically and those nurse leaders who are positioned on the organizational chart between the nurse manager and the CNO. A nurse manager is Registered Nurse with 24 hour/7day accountability for the overall supervision of all Registered Nurses and other healthcare providers in an inpatient or outpatient area. The Nurse Manager is typically responsible for recruitment and retention, performance review, and professional development; involved in the budget formulation and quality outcomes; and helps to plan for, organize and lead the delivery of nursing care for a designated patient care area.
There are NO requirements or recommendations stated for the vast majority of nurses - the ones doing the bedside care on a daily basis. So why are all the local hospitals hiding behind Magnet as their reason for only wanting to hire BSN nurses when that's not true at all?? I do plan to get my BSN and my MSN, but I need experience first and nobody will apparently hire me when I graduate! I also cannot afford a RN-BSN program without a job that will help me pay for it (all these hospitals offer tuition reimbursement for RN-BSN programs) because I am fresh out of undergraduate loans.
So what's the deal and what do us associate degree nurses do!?
Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.
the iom report: the future of nursing, ana/ ancc magnet status, numerous studies by linda aikens rn, phd and others reporting improved patient care and decreased patient deaths with higher # bsn prepared nursing staff, along with increased # bsn programs, glut of rn's desiring to work allows hospitals to choose candidate with highest overall qualifications. health care facilities are increasing pressured to do more with less, improve quality and satisfaction scores and provide excellent patient care; to ignore "evidenced based practices" is a disservice to their patients and community they serve. thus the death knell to new adn/asn educated nurses unable to obtain initial hospital positions in many areas... bsn required at most major philadelphia health system facilities since 2009.
from institute of medicine + robert wood johnson foundation:
... in 2008, the robert wood johnson foundation (rwjf) and the institute of medicine (iom) launched a two-year initiative to respond to the need to assess and transform the nursing profession. the iom appointed the committee on the rwjf initiative on the future of nursing, at the iom, with the purpose of producing a report that would make recommendations for an action-oriented blueprint for the future of nursing.
the need for highly-educated nurses
in the 21st century, the health challenges facing the nation have shifted dramatically. the american population is older—americans 65 and older will be nearly 20 percent of the population by 2030—as well as more diverse with respect not only to race and ethnicity but also other cultural and socioeconomic factors. in addition to shifts in the nation’s demographics, there also have been shifts in that nation’s health care needs. most health care today relates to chronic conditions, such as diabetes, hypertension, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, and mental health conditions, due in part to the nation’s aging population and compounded by increasing obesity levels. while chronic conditions account for most of the care needed today, the u.s. health care system was primarily built around treating acute illnesses and injuries, the predominant health challenges of the early 20th century.
the ways in which nurses were educated during the 20th century are no longer adequate for dealing with the realities of health care in the 21st century. as patient needs and care environments have become more complex, nurses need to attain requisite competencies to deliver high-quality care. these competencies include leadership, health policy, system improvement, research and evidence-based practice, and teamwork and collaboration, as well as competency in specific content areas such as community and public health and geriatrics. nurses also are being called upon to fill expanding roles and to master technological tools and information management systems while collaborating and coordinating care across teams of health professionals. to respond to these increasing demands, the iom committee calls for nurses to achieve higher levels of education and suggests that they be educated in new ways that better prepare them to meet the needs of the population.
the qualifications and level of education required for entry into the nursing profession have been widely debated by nurses, nursing organizations, academics, and a host of other stakeholders for more than 40 years. although a bsn education is not a panacea for all that is expected of nurses in the future, it does, relative to other educational pathways, introduce students to a wider range of competencies in such arenas as health policy and health care financing, community and public health, leadership, quality improvement, and systems thinking. care within the hospital continues to grow more complex, with nurses having to make critical decisions associated with care for sicker, frailer patients and having to use more sophisticated, life-saving technology coupled with information management systems that require skills in analysis and synthesis. care outside the hospital is becoming more complex as well. nurses are being called on to coordinate care among a variety of clinicians and community agencies; to help patients manage chronic illnesses, thereby preventing acute care episodes and disease progression; and to use a variety of technological tools to improve the quality and effectiveness of care. a more educated nursing workforce would be better equipped to meet the demands of an evolving health care system, and this need could be met by increasing the percentage of nurses with a bsn. an increase in the proportion of nurses with a bsn also would create a workforce poised to achieve higher levels of education at the master’s and doctoral levels, required for nurses to serve as primary care providers, nurse researchers, and nurse faculty— positions currently in great demand across the profession and within the health care system. the committee recommends that the proportion of nurses with baccalaureate degrees be increased to 80 percent by 2020. while it anticipates that it will take a few years to build the educational capacity needed to achieve this goal, the committee maintains that it is bold, achievable, and necessary to move the nursing workforce to an expanded set of competencies, especially in the domains of community and public health, leadership, systems improvement and change, research, and health policy.
improving the education system and achieving a more educated workforce—specifically increasing the number of nurses with baccalaureate degrees—can be accomplished through a number of different programs and educational models, including: traditional rn-to-bsn programs; traditional 4-year bsn programs at both universities and some community colleges; educational collaboratives that allow for automatic and seamless transitions from an adn to a bsn; new providers of nursing education such as proprietary/for-profit schools; simulation and distance learning through online courses; and academic-service partnerships....
If you have 1000 applicants for three spots, what is the quickest way to make that pile of resumes short? Dump all the New Grad apps in the trash.
If you have 500 applicants for 2 spots, whats the quickest easiest way to cut that pile in half? File all ADN new grads into the circular bin.
It is that simple.
In theory and IN GENERAL, BSN programs include more prereqs and gen ed. That's why Bachelor holders can shortcut with accelerated programs. Additionally, BSN programs should also include additional nursing content/clinicals and all nursing content should be taught at the 300/400 level versus the 100/200 level.
There's always people eager to point out their exceptional ADN program, a sub-par BSN program, the occasional hospital that prefers NG ADNs when most prefer or even require BSNs, or some other exception. There's always exceptions. These exceptions are not rare, but that doesn't make them the norm.
One thing I have learned from these threads is that many feel RN->BSN programs are not comparable to BSN initial licensure programs in and of themselves as it applies to bedside nursing. That is, the way RN->BSN programs are designed, RNs don't feel they gained much. Meanwhile many feel there is an advantage to BSN over ADN for initial licensure.
Having a bachelors opens up more shortcuts and opportunities to enter nursing than having no college. Yes, there are some annoying hoops to jump through, but either you want it bad enough, or if none of those options are to your liking, there is no shortage of other people who can do them and want them just as bad.
1. it IS a Magnet requirement to show an increasing percentage of BSN's over time. It's a lot easier -- and a WHOLE lot less painful to increase your BSN percentage by only hiring BSN's than it is to force your existing ADN's to go back to school or face getting fired.
2. A lot of nursing leaders have secretly (or not so secretly) wanted to support the BSN as the required entry level for years -- The Magnet push gives them an easier way to achieve what they have been wanting to achieve all along.
3. A recruiter may say "We have to do it for Magnet..." because it ends the discussion. "We have to do it for Magnet" is a conversation stopper that saves them a lot of time.
I believe that regardless if it is an ADN program or a BSN program, that there are way too many nursing schools and new nurses graduating every few months. Even if every hospital were to only hire BSN nurses there would still be an over abundance of nurses. There are just too many nursing programs available nowadays. Requiring BSN only may help a facility achieve and maintain its magnet status, but I really don't think it would do much for helping nurses get jobs in this economy. Let's not forget that there are a bunch of Accelerated BSN programs that also contribute to the increasing number of new graduate nurses.
Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
Let me start off by saying that I teach in an AD program (and my original degree was an Associates). I feel I need to say this so I am not coming across as anti-AD (because I definitely do see it's value).
Unfortunately, I don't think this will ever fully revert back to the old ways (where AD is just as good, as far as the employers are concerned)...
How many ADN programs have a formal bridge program to allow the new RN to continue with their BSN seamlessly at another instiutution?
Have the ADN programs begun telling prospective students that their job prospects are limited compared to a BSN? It would be horrible if they were citing old job placement rates for their programs
Take a look at this link for US House Bill 1929. This one is happening very soon. This is why the "nursing shortage" is perpetuated. Lots of corporate back-up for this one. Now, who wants to spend more money on a nursing career?! Any takers? Think it's hard now to get a job as a bsn/adn? Well, it's gonna get way worse. In my area some hospital networks are over 80 percent foreign. There is almost no gaining an interview if you were not educated overseas, specifically one country. Yes, a few nurses who are family of nursing management work there who were edu in the US, but that is it. They cannot wait for the passing of this bill.
Take a gander at the bill it's what you should read prior to taking out your loans. Hospitals will hire foreign nurses over US nurses unless told to hire US edu nurses first. Easier to do it that way
Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
I believe that regardless if it is an ADN program or a BSN program, that there are way too many nursing schools and new nurses graduating every few months. Even if every hospital were to only hire BSN nurses there would still be an over abundance of nurses. There are just too many nursing programs available nowadays. Requiring BSN only may help a facility achieve and maintain its magnet status, but I really don't think it would do much for helping nurses get jobs in this economy. Let's not forget that there are a bunch of accelerated BSN programs that also contribute to the increasing number of new graduate nurses.
I don't think there are too many schools, but we are currently producing new nurses at a rate that exceeds the markets ability to absorb them. While this is a temporary condition, it does create a glut, at an unpleasent human cost.
Unfortunately schools are not selling jobs, but an education, so there is no economic incentive to "downsize" their programs until the market changes.
In my ADN program, an 83 was an F, failing. You met the standards or you were out. You had to make a 94 to get an A. Then I went on to the BSN program, and a 70 was passing! The BSN program was a joke compared to the ADN program I had just went thru. I already had most of the pre-reqs for the BSN, so I just had to take classes specific to nursing. I honestly felt like I did not learn a thing, just spent more money. I am only speaking for myself, of course, but I feel that my ADN program was far superior to my BSN program. The problem I am seeing in my area now is that the BSN students get out and think they will automatically be in management.
I started in a BSN program many years ago and for complicated reasons I won't go into that DO NOT involve flunking out, I was not able to finish. I mananged to make it to the 2nd semester of my Junior year. I now have my ADN through Excelsior. I have just applied back to the same BSN program I started in many years ago, as they now offer an online RN-to-BSN option. Back in the early 90s, this program required you to pass all nursing courses with a C or better....however they did not grade on the 10-point scale used by the other departments. A 95 was an A, a 90 was a B, and an 85 was a C. Anything below that was failing. The traditional BSN and the online BSN programs at this school today, almost 20 years later, still require a minimum of 85. I think it just depends on the school. Sorry...a little off-topic I know.....
There is so much grumbling over the ADN/BSN debate. I've just come to the conclusion that it will make my life easier and save me a headache if I just go into the BSN program. Is it more expensive? Yes. Does it take more time? Maybe... most ADN programs in my area have a waiting list and BSN does not, so it won't necessarily take that much more time. However, it gets me where I want to be... working as a nurse. It's like taxes, doesn't matter how much you yell about it, you still have to pay them.
How many ADN programs have a formal bridge program to allow the new RN to continue with their BSN seamlessly at another instiutution?
Not nearly enough. I must add, I live and work in a major city, for their university system. It will take quite a while for the masses to get onboard.
Have the ADN programs begun telling prospective students that their job prospects are limited compared to a BSN? It would be horrible if they were citing old job placement rates for their programs
not in those words exactly (no one would apply then ). But we do ingrain in them (at the point of application) that they will need to get the BSN, because our state will likely be on the forefront of requiring it.
). But we do ingrain in them (at the point of application) that they will need to get the BSN, because our state will likely be on the forefront of requiring it.
NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN
10 Articles; 19,190 Posts
the iom report: the future of nursing, ana/ ancc magnet status, numerous studies by linda aikens rn, phd and others reporting improved patient care and decreased patient deaths with higher # bsn prepared nursing staff, along with increased # bsn programs, glut of rn's desiring to work allows hospitals to choose candidate with highest overall qualifications. health care facilities are increasing pressured to do more with less, improve quality and satisfaction scores and provide excellent patient care; to ignore "evidenced based practices" is a disservice to their patients and community they serve. thus the death knell to new adn/asn educated nurses unable to obtain initial hospital positions in many areas... bsn required at most major philadelphia health system facilities since 2009.
from institute of medicine + robert wood johnson foundation:
the future of nursing: leading change, advancing health