What's REALLY with the hospitals using Magnet as a cover for wanting BSN only nurses?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I'm in an associate degree RN program. I have a previous BA in Psychology and just finished up my last two classes online to also get my BS in Business Administration. I have worked for over a year as a PCA at a local hospital and also work as a supplemental instruction leader to help incoming nursing students do better in their first and second quarters. Yet all the nursing recruiters at the hospitals I'm looking at say that without a BSN, none of that will matter and my odds of getting hired are slim to none since I am competing with 4 well respected BSN programs.When asked why, all the hospitals said it is a requirement for Magnet status. From what I can tell, the requirements in terms of degrees for Magnet status are:

1. The CNO must have at a minimum, a master's degree at the time of application. If the master's degree is not in nursing then either a baccalaureate degree or doctoral degree must be in nursing.

2. Effective 1/1/2011 - 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

3. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

4. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% of nurse leaders must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

By the AANC's definition, most nurses don't fall under any of these cateogories. A nurse leader is a nurse with line authority over multiple units that have RNs working clinically and those nurse leaders who are positioned on the organizational chart between the nurse manager and the CNO. A nurse manager is Registered Nurse with 24 hour/7day accountability for the overall supervision of all Registered Nurses and other healthcare providers in an inpatient or outpatient area. The Nurse Manager is typically responsible for recruitment and retention, performance review, and professional development; involved in the budget formulation and quality outcomes; and helps to plan for, organize and lead the delivery of nursing care for a designated patient care area.

There are NO requirements or recommendations stated for the vast majority of nurses - the ones doing the bedside care on a daily basis. So why are all the local hospitals hiding behind Magnet as their reason for only wanting to hire BSN nurses when that's not true at all?? I do plan to get my BSN and my MSN, but I need experience first and nobody will apparently hire me when I graduate! I also cannot afford a RN-BSN program without a job that will help me pay for it (all these hospitals offer tuition reimbursement for RN-BSN programs) because I am fresh out of undergraduate loans.

So what's the deal and what do us associate degree nurses do!?

Which unfortunately does me no good - an ADN student with (obviously) zero RN experience, a BA in Health Psychology, a BS in Business Administration, and (when I graduate) 2.5 years experience as a PCA.

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Specializes in Cardiac, PCU, Surg/Onc, LTC, Peds.
I have talked to over a dozen nurses who originally completed an ADN program and later when back and did a RN-BSN. They have ALL said it was a complete waste of time and money. The new requirement being BSN only certainly isn't because we'll be better nurses because of it!

If you don't want to get your BSN than don't apply at a magnet hospital. There that was an easy solution. I get tired of people wanting to be seen as a respected profession but not put in the education.

Hospitals aren't using magnet. Magnet promotes excellence. Aka, leadership, education, certifications blah blah blah.

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If you don't want to get your BSN than don't apply at a magnet hospital. There that was an easy solution. I get tired of people wanting to be seen as a respected profession but not put in the education.

Hospitals aren't using magnet. Magnet promotes excellence. Aka, leadership, education, certifications blah blah blah.

Just because I don't want to get my BSN or that others have said it is a wate of time doesn't mean that I won't get it. I will definitely get my BSN as quickly as possible. I plan to become a nurse practitioner, so I will be continuing my education and a BSN is the next required step unless I attend a program that doesn't require a BSN since I have an ADN and a non-nursing bachelors degree.

Also, not an easy solution. What if the only hospitals in your location are magnet hospitals? What if you don't have the luxury to pick up and move because of family situations? It's not as easy as just knocking on the door of that conveniently located non-Magnet hospital down the road. Every single hospital in my area is either Magnet or working very hard to become Magnet and only interested in BSN prepared nurses.

Why do hospitals need a fancy title or designation to promote leadership and education? They can't do it all on their own? More education doesn't make a nurse a better nurse. It can, but it doesn't always. A BSN also isn't required to be a good leader. Experience and other education can make a nurse a great leader. Sure a BSN can certainly help, but you can educate yourself until you are blue in the face and have ever degree under the sun and still be a poor nurse and a poor leader. You can't always teach someone how to take that education and apply it in the real world.

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Specializes in Cardiac, PCU, Surg/Onc, LTC, Peds.

Well you still have plenty of time to weigh all these options. Things might change between now and next year when you graduate.

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Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

I guess that, while you may have certain points, I do not understand wasting so much mental energy railing against it. It is what it is and the writing is on the wall. You will have to find a way to get your BSN and if you can't, you will have to take jobs that are not at a hospital after pounding the pavement looking for them pretty hard.

I am graduating from an ADN program too. Yeah, it is worrisome, but it is what it is. Whining about the unfairness, lack of logic and how "not everyone can do it" is pretty much pointless. Of COURSE those who don't have the BSN aren't going to like it. If anything though, at this point I see it serving to protect nursing wages from massive deflation from the overglutting of the market with graduate nurses. It happened with LVNs and now it is happening with ADNs. Time to adapt.

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Specializes in Pediatrics.

Why do hospitals need a fancy title or designation to promote leadership and education? They can't do it all on their own? More education doesn't make a nurse a better nurse. It can, but it doesn't always. A BSN also isn't required to be a good leader. Experience and other education can make a nurse a great leader. Sure a BSN can certainly help, but you can educate yourself until you are blue in the face and have ever degree under the sun and still be a poor nurse and a poor leader. You can't always teach someone how to take that education and apply it in the real world.

Not according to ANCC :)

These accolades are very subjective without someone's seal of approval. I used to teach in a program that was not accredited by the NLN. People used to freak out about this when applying. We could tell them till we were blue in the face, that we were a good, reputable school. But without that distinction, some people wouldn't even look at us. Would you?

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

Once again it's the ADN vs BSN debate and this debate unfortunately will continue....I agree we need to be educated to move forward and I think in this day and age getting the BSN is the route to take. I disagree however that just having the BSN give the seal of excellence when there are many of us old nurses out there that maynot even have a ADN but a diploma and they are excellent nurses. So the hair on the back of my neck always stands up when the experience and knowledge gained over a lifetime is discredited.

There is NOT a requirement for Magnet facilities to have BSN prepared nurses to ensure their excellence. The job market is what drives the selection of employee's on any given day. The HOSPITAL and NOT Magent makes that determination. Having a BSN just happens to be the new BUZZ phrase of the season........:rolleyes:

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I do not intend to make this out to be a BSN vs ADN debate. We're all nurses. The degrees and initials after our names do not make us good nurses. That has to be proven. I'm just frustrated that ADN nurses seem to be getting completely phased out in my area. We can't even get hired to even start into a RN-BSN program.

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Specializes in ICU.

In my ADN program, an 83 was an F, failing. You met the standards or you were out. You had to make a 94 to get an A. Then I went on to the BSN program, and a 70 was passing! The BSN program was a joke compared to the ADN program I had just went thru. I already had most of the pre-reqs for the BSN, so I just had to take classes specific to nursing. I honestly felt like I did not learn a thing, just spent more money. I am only speaking for myself, of course, but I feel that my ADN program was far superior to my BSN program. The problem I am seeing in my area now is that the BSN students get out and think they will automatically be in management.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

1. While it is not a Magnet requirement to have 100% BSN's ... it IS a Magnet requirement to show an increasing percentage of BSN's over time. It's a lot easier -- and a WHOLE lot less painful to increase your BSN percentage by only hiring BSN's than it is to force your existing ADN's to go back to school or face getting fired. So, hospitals let their existing ADN's keep their jobs and raise their percentage by only hiring BSN's. (The national goal set by some leaders is 80% BSN by 2020.)

2. A lot of nursing leaders have secretly (or not so secretly) wanted to support the BSN as the required entry level for years -- but have been reluctant to make a public stand and get sucked into the politics and nasty debates. The Magnet push gives them an easier way to achieve what they have been wanting to achieve all along. A lot of nursing leaders are using the Magnet program this way in regards to a lot of issues (e.g. extra pay for certifications, increased tuition reimbursement, etc.) They can say "We have to do it for Magnet" ... to get support from hospital boards, etc.

3. A recruiter may say "We have to do it for Magnet..." because it ends the discussion. The recruiter doesn't want to get drawn into a long philosophical discussion about education and/or the future of nursing with every applicant. "We have to do it for Magnet" is a conversation stopper that saves them a lot of time.

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In my ADN program, an 83 was an F, failing. You met the standards or you were out. You had to make a 94 to get an A. Then I went on to the BSN program, and a 70 was passing! The BSN program was a joke compared to the ADN program I had just went thru. I already had most of the pre-reqs for the BSN, so I just had to take classes specific to nursing. I honestly felt like I did not learn a thing, just spent more money. I am only speaking for myself, of course, but I feel that my ADN program was far superior to my BSN program. The problem I am seeing in my area now is that the BSN students get out and think they will automatically be in management.

yeah, i'm seeing those BSN managers. i was there as a 1st semester student when a manager (who has a BS in poly sci then did an accelerated BSN program then spent 30months at bedside then straight to management) told a charge RN with a diploma degree & 31 years experience in the ER that "you really should consider the BSN because it will make you a better nurse..." :uhoh3: i understand the value of formal education but really, there should have been a better way to phrase that...

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Specializes in Emergency Room.

IMHO.....

Can't beat 'em... JOIN 'EM! It is long past the time for nursing to achieve status as a bona fide profession, respected as co-equal in status and autonomy with other professions in the multi-disciplinary healthcare team. Magnet status is a good thing, and the Institute of Medicine has challenged the nursing profession to achieve 80% BSN holders by 2020. We have a long way to go. Every hospital that adopts this or a similar model for nursing becomes an actual stakeholder in achieving this objective. :)

http://www.nsna.org/Portals/0/Skins/NSNA/pdf/Career_Jan04_Hawke.pdf

http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2010/The-Future-of-Nursing-Leading-Change-Advancing-Health/Report-Brief-Education.aspx

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