Another I regret my decision to go into nursing thread. It's grown on me and I am very satisfied by what I do. However, it does not provide enough income for me to take care of my family. Not to even mention the horrible benefits that most places offer now.
I was having a discussion with a co-worker the other day and she was complaining that her husband had to install fire suppression sprinklers all weekend. However, she loved that he was making time and half for the job and shouldn't complain too much about it. Since she opened the door wide open, me, "so, if you don't mind me asking, what's time and half?" Her response, "well, he only clears $84 an hour after they take out for his retirement and benefits." As I stare blankly at her in disbelief, her response, "but he works really hard and it's an important job." Additional details, no formal education beyond high school for the job, but he did go through an apprentice program for two years. He's in a union and averages about $60 - 75 an hour, depending on the job.
The belief that what we do is somehow less important than installing sprinklers is a major reason why nursing is in its present state. Not only does my co-worker, a nurse, believe that it is justified, but society is saying that this skill is more valuable than caring for our sick people. This sentiment is rampant on AN as well and will be defended with snarky comments like, "don't let the door hit you on the way out."
It's too bad and obviously not going to change in the near future. With nursing being overwhelmingly female, a major contributing factor is that women do not know their worth. New studies indicate that most people are happy with earning between $70k and $80k. More than this doesn't necessarily make you any happier and less doesn't allow you to be your happiest.
Yes, I do make slightly more than the "happy" range with minimal overtime. Yes, I am very confident that I can install sprinklers and my co-worker stated that her husband "doesn't have the book smarts to do anything else." Meaning he could not do our job, but I'm confident that the vast majority of nurses could install sprinklers. She mentioned that she was concerned that he's getting older and it's getting more difficult for him to climb around in the ceiling. I'm relatively young and can not imagine being able to do all that's required as a bedside nurse when I'm in my later 40s or older.
I have many immediate and extended family members who are nurses and live all over the U.S. and are in many different specialties and settings. Most of them have been in nursing for over 10 years and they more or less echo my feelings. They also did their best to dissuade me from pursing nursing as a career. Wish I would have paid more attention to them and took their advice.
I'm enrolled in a NP program and fear that the predicted glut of RNs will force many people into NP positions and drive down wages and lessen working conditions for NPs as well.
I'm at the crossroads in life where I can not really invest the time and effort into changing careers again. In hindsight nursing wasn't the best decision and I was a bit wide-eyed and naive despite family telling me otherwise. .
If you feel like you might have not checked into nursing closely enough before starting I would urge you to re-read the above and make sure you are happy with your current path. My most unofficial opinion is that there will in fact be a huge glut of NPs, and very likely subpar NPs, graduating in the next decade which will negatively influence wages.
I agree that females seem to be willing to work for less than males would however I presently make more than twice the happy range you added in your OP. It is due to a combination of market place demand, my professional contacts, knowing my worth and having the tenacity to repeatedly defend the wage I know I'm entitled to at this time. I'm banking as much as I can now because I also see the writing on the wall.
I try not to compare my life, my pay, or my job to anybody else. There's no reason to as I'm happy with what I have. I could make more it I chose to move, change specialties, and work overtime. I could make more if I went back to school. I don't want to do any of those things. I'm happy with where I am.
Placing value on what another person does for a living, or how much they make just seems..elitist?
I would point out the word union, as another poster did.
Also manual labor is hard on the body. Part of the sprinkler installer's pay is compensation for physical work, that not everybody can or wants to do.
Comparing yourself to the rare person who makes big money is a joy killer. For every skilled union guy making the big money in a skilled trade, there are plenty of day laborers standing along the day laborers' hangout hoping for a day's small wages. You are better off than them.
Nursing pays a middle class wage, especially for some of us who have a 2 year community college degree. I earn good money; not as much as my cousin who plays major league baseball, but enough for all needs and many wants.
Not feeling valued? Sometimes it is that way.
No quick fix for that except to practice the attitude of gratitude.
You are comparing what you do to day laborers? Well, respectfully, I don't agree with your comparison, and YOU may be getting what you believe you are being compensated as being fair for what you bring to the table. Why the resistance to the idea that it could and should be better for us and our patients?
Your employment is a private contract between you and your employer. No one forced you to become a nurse or take this job. So on the one hand, if you're not happy with what you're making, you should do something else. On the other hand - I agree gender might very well play a role in what nurses are paid.
A little perspective might be in order. I am in my 30s with some college and a high school diploma. I live in a city with lots of jobs, but TONS of colleges and a constant glut of fresh new grads willing to work for peanuts. Most of my office is comprised of revolving-door positions with a new 22-year-old woman every two years. (They like female new grads b/c they can pay them less. Of course they won't say that out loud.)
I made $23K last year. My husband has 10 years in the military, Defense Information School, an infantry deployment and a Public Affairs deployment, plus nearly a decade running a unit Public Affairs office supervising a team of journalists and editing a paper. He is making $11 an hour loading trucks part-time at UPS. We are barely surviving.
(And yes we have clean criminal records, stable work history, and don't do drugs.)
I'm not complaining, ok? We're working on digging our way out of this hole and I don't need sympathy. My point is I can't imagine making $70K a year and complaining b/c someone else is making more. Actually - I can't imagine making $70K, full stop. It sounds like pure Heaven to me. We didn't make that much between the two of us last year.
I take your point - at least I think so - that it upsets you that nursing is perceived to be of such little value that a sprinkler installer makes more. But there aren't a lot of other jobs that pay this well with a 2-year-degree, or even 4-year. (Engineering, math, hard science maybe.) I know several college grads in liberal arts/humanities working as receptionists and "sandwich artists." Have a good friend with two M.A.s (in English and Poetry - why?!?!) working as a PT admin asst making about what I make.
However I agree with you that women devalue themselves and that quite possibly part of the reason nurses aren't paid more is because most nurses are women. I was researching RN and NP jobs in various cities on Indeed, Glassdoor, Payscale, etc., and inadvertently saw (on Payscale.com) the salary info broken down by gender. Females made significantly less for every single position I looked at. That's enough to make you hulk out a little bit.
To call what I wrote in my OP whining is a bit of a stretch. The sprinkler installer was used as an illustration and attempt to compare what we do as nurses vs what they do. Again, unfortunately, what we are paid is a direct reflection on how much society values what we do. For me, I believe that good nursing care is priceless and know that I offer more to society than someone installing sprinklers.
It may be difficult for you to believe, but when you pull back the curtain on most male-dominated occupations, they are easier. It's relative and subjective as to what easier is to each person and this is coming from personal experiences. I've done construction, military, personal training, and IT, which are all more or less traditionally male dominated. It may be that I'm naturally "wired" for those occupations and they come to me easier. I can not speak for all males, but I am fairly certain that most can not do all that is expected of nurses. There's a reason that there are still so few of us in the field.
Coming from a military background mostly males, many die at work and hundreds of thousands lose limbs, they work longer hours,get paid less than you and some who say their jobs is more important than yours those guys should be salty not you , did you say their job was easier ?
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
My son, who only has a hs diploma, is making about 10 more dollars an hour than I am, but he is a cement worker within a union shop, and works in horrible conditions---- 200 feet above the Mississippi River, building a bridge and pouring cement in all sorts of nasty weather, from -10 to 100 degrees-plus, in the hot sun with a constant wind blowing that could knock him down...... I don't begrudge his making more. He chose a dangerous job that just happens to be a union position that makes good money. As a matter of fact, I am happy and proud of him. Once he is a journeyman he will make even more money. Good for him!!!
My husband, who sells tools to military contractors, also makes more than I do, but his job involves driving as much as 300 miles in a day, catering to sometimes-difficult customers that can be as hard to please as any patient I care for. It's all good. Together, we make good money.
I only wish I were in a union shop, cause the hourly rate would improve IMO. BUT----I chose this job for its advantages: I work indoors, in a nice clean and temperate environment and I am done at 2pm. No on-call at all. Day shift hours (4 10-hour days a week) with only every other Saturday to work. I go home and I don't have to work anymore. My day is done. My husband sometimes works in his home office til after 10pm---- after a full day, visiting customers all over the place. He is salaried, so no extra money comes for working those long hours in his office.
I am not jealous at all. Each job has its pluses and minuses.
I got into nursing to get away from construct type jobs. When I was working for the shipyard I made very close to what I made when I first became a nurse.
Men with trades deserve what they get just the same as a nurse. AND they are much harder than you think they are, not everyone can do it….brains and brawn are a must.
Nursing is a cake walk for me. And we need very skilled tradesman this country has.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Brandon, I'm not taking anything away from what he does and don't believe that he should necessarily make less than nurses. It is meant to be an illustration on how much value society and employers place on our skills, education, and knowledge. I'll sound like a broken record, but I believe the primary reason for this is that one occupation is male dominated and the other is female dominated. The irony, women in nursing will resist and defend the status quo the most aggressively. The mere mention of it will instantly offend and I'll be labeled as being misogynistic. I genuinely want to advocate for bettering the field and would love to see positive changes. Not only for selfish reasons, but it's what we are supposed to do for our patients.
I've done plenty of construction and trust me it's not that difficult. He doesn't necessarily need to know anymore than how to read a blueprint, measure, solder, cut and form pipes, turn a wrench, and climb a ladder. Most union trade jobs in the Philadelphia area pay more than nursing. Yes, I'm jealous and disappointed.
UNION. Most UNION trade jobs pay more than nursing. Yet nurses resist unions. I doubt very much it has all that to do with being female -- I think "the calling" has made us shoot ourselves in the foot. Until we stop with the admiration for those with "the calling" and accept that we are educated, expert professionals and that unions have a place in our profession, we will still be out-earned by those who have chosen to band together for more voice.
Coming from a military background mostly males, many die at work and hundreds of thousands lose limbs, they work longer hours,get paid less than you and some who say their jobs is more important than yours those guys should be salty not you , did you say their job was easier ?
Did eight years in the military, and yes, for me, it was easier. I wasn't deployed to a war zone and most people in the military aren't. Most do not lose limbs and most do not die. However, most good nurses are underpaid for what we are exposed to and what is expected of us.
I'm actually happy and satisfied with my job, despite wanting it to be better. That means better compensation and better working conditions. I don't think it pays enough to be the sole income earner and that's my fault for not doing more research on compensation and benefits.
I'm well aware that there are other occupations that pay more. That's not the intended point of my OP and I wanted to give an opinion as an "outsider" who has primarily worked in male-dominated fields. It was always interesting to hear from females who worked in IT. Most people don't agree with me, which is fine, but the tone is always borderline hostile. Perhaps, you are internalizing it and can not accept that we are the reason that healthcare is not what it should be.
We make up the largest group of workers in the system and generally have the most direct interactions with patients. It is up to us to change it for the better. If you're happy where you're at, great for you. Do you think it's going to be that way for the rest of your career? There's absolutely no reason to believe, due to recent and past changes, that it will not continue to decline. One of my previous employer's, government, primarily only hired foreign nurses. On the surface, hey great they are giving people an opportunity they otherwise may not have. Well wouldn't you know it, they pretty much broke every labor law on the books with them. They were being paid less and worked in very lousy conditions. They were being exploited, but to most of them it was 100% better than where they came from.
UNION. Most UNION trade jobs pay more than nursing. Yet nurses resist unions. I doubt very much it has all that to do with being female -- I think "the calling" has made us shoot ourselves in the foot. Until we stop with the admiration for those with "the calling" and accept that we are educated, expert professionals and that unions have a place in our profession, we will still be out-earned by those who have chosen to band together for more voice.
I have never understood the rationale for not embracing unions in nursing!
You are comparing what you do to day laborers? Well, respectfully, I don't agree with your comparison, and YOU may be getting what you believe you are being compensated as being fair for what you bring to the table. Why the resistance to the idea that it could and should be better for us and our patients?
My opposition is not to better pay and better working conditions. My opposition is to comparing my job with anybody else's. Whether or not I get a pay raise should not, and does not depend on what the person mowing the grass makes.
My opposition is not to better pay and better working conditions. My opposition is to comparing my job with anybody else's. Whether or not I get a pay raise should not, and does not depend on what the person mowing the grass makes.
It does indirectly matter what the person mowing grass makes to you. The more they make, the more they spend, which in turn causes inflation. It matters, and again, it's an indication how valued we are in society.
Jules A, MSN
8,864 Posts
If you feel like you might have not checked into nursing closely enough before starting I would urge you to re-read the above and make sure you are happy with your current path. My most unofficial opinion is that there will in fact be a huge glut of NPs, and very likely subpar NPs, graduating in the next decade which will negatively influence wages.
I agree that females seem to be willing to work for less than males would however I presently make more than twice the happy range you added in your OP. It is due to a combination of market place demand, my professional contacts, knowing my worth and having the tenacity to repeatedly defend the wage I know I'm entitled to at this time. I'm banking as much as I can now because I also see the writing on the wall.