WHAT were they thinking at that Nursing Home???

Specialties Geriatric

Published

OK- just let me say up front, this is NOT a flame of LTC nurses. I want your opinion about something.I'm an ED nurse who has worked in your shoes as well, and I understand how hard your job is, and how much good you do on a daily basis. There is a certain amount of discourd at times, between LTC and Hospital nurses- I've heard (NEVER SAID) that people who can't "handle" the pressure of working in a Hospital have to go to a LTC because they don't have the necessary smarts, skills, coping mechanism, ect. to "hack" it in the real world.(I disagree with that statement). I've precepted students who have actually said things like this, so I'm not sure exactly where it comes from? I also understand that our priorities are different from LTC nurses, based on what we do for our patients. Something happened the other day involving a LTC pt. that left me flabbergasted!

I got a 62 yo male with acute/rapidly advancing dementia. His wife of 2 yrs is at the bedside. He is aggressive, aggitated. According to the wife, he was "normal" 2 yrs ago, but the dememtia is rapidly getting worse. So much for the man she married (sigh...) So this man was sent to me from his LTC facility for "UTI". He had had a Foley cath placed 2 weeks ago d/t inability to void/prostate issues, and is supposed to be waiting for a Urology consult to be arranged by the LTC faclitiy. The report I got was that the man had an indwelling Foley cath, foul smelling urine, temps, ect. OK- good pick up by the LTC place, right?

I undress this man, and find no leg bad- he's wearing sweat pants, with underwear, and 2 briefs on underneath that. THE FOLEY IS STILL IN...OPEN...without any type of bag/collection device, ect. draining right into the adult diaper. It's not clamped in any way- What the &%$#!!!!! I question the wife- according to her, the staff told her the leg bag/drainage bag "aggitated" the patient, so they just took it off. No way ANYBODY with a nursing license would do something that stupid, right? So I called the NH, spoke with the RN Supervisor. SHE KNEW about the situation- informed me that the NP had ordered it to be dealt with that way. I basically called her a liar (professionally, of course)- She said she'd fax me the written orders. She did, but all it said was that the man should be placed on a clamping schedule- So I called her back-told her that a clamping schedule would be appropriate, but was NOT the same thing as leaving Foley cath open. HELLO???? SHe then proceeded to backpeddle, saying that it was probably clamped, but that the man must have taken the clamp off. 1. There was no way the man could get to it with all of those layers, 2. the man's wife told me that they were lying, and that she had questioned it multiple times. How could ANY nurse think that was a good idea? I understand that the NH is their home, and things are done a bit differently than in a hospital, but seriously? Leaving a Foley open like that..then wondering why he got a UTI....I'm still amazed that anybody, let alone several nurses, could forget their training and think that would be appropriate? What do you guys think?

Specializes in LTC.
I take great offense to that statement. By trying to educate the staff at the NH, or being SHOCKED that nurses would harm a patient in this way, I'm being a princess? Comments like yours are what lead to the friction between different places like ED and LTC. This is a BASIC infection control issue, and the problem I had was that nobody seemed to think it was a big deal. Even the wife, who doesn't have any medical training, figured out this was a bad idea and questioned the staff about it. No matter what the venue is, hospital or NH, some things, like BASIC INFECTION CONTROL don't change. Would you have passed your clinical rotation in school if you did that to a patient? Absolutley not. If one of my students did that, I'd have HUGE concerns about their standards of practice.

Once again, it is not what you said it's how you said it. I think you have very legitimate concerns and seem to really care about what was going on about your patient. Unfortunately the title and first phrase of your post may get you some undesired responses. Maybe you can ask the mods to edit it for you.

just my two cents. :twocents:

Specializes in LTC.

That's not bashing LTC...that's just a dumb nurse. That did that. Not you.

Specializes in ER.

I also was trying to make the point that it was that ONE, SINGULAR, ISOLATED facility-not all LTC places. Hope that clears it up a bit.

Well, I can see both sides just from hanging around AN. I think that it is most likely that the LTC nurses would love to not have to MacGyver every last thing with 30+ patients, and very little in the way of support or supplies. You know, I've been a case manager and my caseload was often at several LTCs. You'd be surprised at how absolutely horrid the working conditions can be at some of these places. On top of that, the PCPs that these nurses (and me) have to deal with can absolutely be the worst possible, and have no plan of care really. Although Morte had the logical idea, I bet it was tried already. I'm sure many have seen a patient pull out a foley as a previous poster said, now there is a hemorrhage. LTC nurses who work in places like these more than a month, have been there and done that idea, let me tell you. Many admins are absolutely "no restraint" no matter what. Some families do not help either by refusing ANY pharm help in the matter - no matter how aggitated, the PCPs make no attempt to educate either. Sadly, it's always that grandma that has the terrible fall.

Sometimes I think these nurses feel like they are in the third world and when they speak with you Op at the big hospital, they just know that it is not worth the battle. Simply they are too exhausted to fight with ya. I've seen these nurses turn and drop meds to run and try to save a resident from injury, see the panic and sweat on their faces. This because they have their hands absolutely tied. I felt my job was to be there for those nurses, and help them, be a listener, an extra eye. All those dementia patients, it was my duty to not only assess my patients while I was visiting, but lend a hand where I could while I was there. How could I not?

Specializes in LTC.

I would have tried a leg bag and hidden it under the resident's sweatpants.

Specializes in Orthopaedic Nursing; Geriatrics.

The main issue here has turned from what happened to a debate over who is a better nurse - again! Geez. ANY nurse that was awake during nursing school should know this was wrong! Leaving this elderly man, who cannot complain of pain or discomfort on his own, with a "yellow brick road" for microbials to scoot up into his bladder is ridiculous. Bad nursing practice. Period. Whether you are in LTC, hospital or a third world country. As our original writer sated, it is an infection control issue and WE are supposed to be preventing infection, not aiding it!

Specializes in PCU/Hospice/Oncology.

That is simply tragic. I have worked both LTC and Hospital. My LTC nursing ended almost as quickly as it started for reasons like the OP found. Unfortunately you get some shoddy nurses working LTC. Its not to say that all, or even most, LTC nurses are like this, but all it takes is one or three really off beat nurses to ruin the bunch. Usually an enabling charge to go with it.

I worked at a LTC facility every other weekend to supplement my oncology job while I was going through school. They called me the "clean up" crew because I would spend most of my weekends redoing spotty things the other nurses had done the 2 weeks prior with incorrectly done orders, wound tx ect.

One day I got on shift and got report from one of the "not so on top of it" nurses that worked at this facility. Herself and 3 other of the same type of nurses were responsible for this wing through the week. I got the typical, "Everything is just great, the world is sunshine, now let me get outta here" kind of reports. Needless to say I found a patient in a pool of her own blood that had a GAPING leg wound that looked like some animal had taken a chunk out of her leg. The blood was dry.

The CNAs had put her back into bed and the nurse had charted a "Small skin tear not note worthy." I sent her out 911. She needed blood transfusions and was in the hospital 2 weeks due to the severity of her injury. I never found out what exactly had happened but i guarantee it wasn't a "non note worthy tear."

I quit at the end of that shift after doing copious charting and damage control with the family. My license is worth more to me than working at a place like that and nurses like that.

The point of all this is, that yes you get some amazing nurses at LTC facilities but you also get the bottom of the barrel too. LTCs let things like this slip through with little recourse. You cant get away with that type of thing at a hospital. That is one of the reasons people say the sharper nurses TEND to work at the hospitals, because you HAVE to be on your A-game. Those that arent find themselves jobless or reported to their BON.

Its really unfortunate. I would love to say that both areas are equally respected and take equal skill but they dont. LTCs get a bad rep because of nurses like I just told you about which have permeated that industry here in south Florida. They both have their challenges but the hospital nurses tend to be more "with the program" compared to LTC. Ive worked both so those are just my observations. :/

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.

First, there must be something about Foley care that is skipped in some nursing school programs. This was an inpatient hospital setting: Foley was not draning. Nurse deflated the balloon, advanced the catheter, still nothing. For some reason, she felt the need to test the balloon, so she shot 10 mL of air into the balloon port. Thankfully the balloon worked, but when she told us about this we were all left wondering "what was she thinking??" Anyway, point to this story is that lack of basic nursing knowledge/judgement is not unique to one specialty.

As for the everyone vs. LTC issue...I know some great LTC nurses, some to whom I would trust my life. And I know some really horrible hospital nurses who would not be allowed in my room, let alone touch me (or insert a Foley ;)) I read the OP question more as "what were they thinking" and the "at the nursing home" part as inconsequential. As far as I read it, it might as well have said "in that ICU" "In that ED," or "on the med/surg unit." I have had some not good situations with patients who have come from each of those settings. I hope other people are able to answer this without the "nursing home" part entering their mind, and just answer "what where they thinking?"

Specializes in drug seekers and the incurably insane..

It's shoddy, not "shotty". I have to disagree with the posts stating one has to be on their "A-Game" to be working in the hospital. There are shoddy nurses everywhere because nurses are people and there are shoddy people everywhere. I work in a gero-psych LTC, and shoddy nursing is prohibited. One has to do their job correctly, on time, and with a smile on the face. We are also JCAHO-accredited....not that it means much...

Specializes in PCU/Hospice/Oncology.
33230f5b-da82-4e11-bebb-04cb3b7a32f7.jpg

A foley left open to drain into a diaper??? What were they thinking? I can understand that the resident may have annoyed by the leg bag being tight on his leg, so maybe they should have tried some other method of attachment, maybe pinning it to his pant leg. But just leaving it open??

Wow.

Specializes in PCU/Hospice/Oncology.

That is totally unacceptable nursing care. That poor man! :(

+ Add a Comment