What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

toomuchbaloney · Apr 18, 2021

That's a lot to unpack.

When we are manipulated by the oligarchs to vote and act against our self interests the outcome will not be good for the working classes.

heron, ASN, RN · Apr 18, 2021

I’m not at all sure that trickle-down social engineering will work any better than trickle-down economics did. While I certainly agree that bad actors need to be held accountable for their behavior, the problem won’t be solved by demonizing a few politicians and stacking the judicial deck. Besides, as I’ve written before, I do not support incentivizing the very same tactics that put the far right crazies in positions of power in the first place. Doing the same as them will lead to the same results. The right-wingnuts do not have a corner on corruptability.

SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 18, 2021

16 hours ago, heron said:

Besides, as I’ve written before, I do not support incentivizing the very same tactics that put the far right crazies in positions of power in the first place. Doing the same as them will lead to the same results. The right-wingnuts do not have a corner on corruptability.

True, but at this time there is no counterbalance. The far right nuts who are completely unqualified are sitting on judicial seats. So, doing nothing about that is not OK.

guest1163268 · Apr 18, 2021

17 hours ago, heron said:

I’m not at all sure that trickle-down social engineering will work any better than trickle-down economics did. While I certainly agree that bad actors need to be held accountable for their behavior, the problem won’t be solved by demonizing a few politicians and stacking the judicial deck. Besides, as I’ve written before, I do not support incentivizing the very same tactics that put the far right crazies in positions of power in the first place. Doing the same as them will lead to the same results. The right-wingnuts do not have a corner on corruptability.

Trickle down social engineering is really just role modeling and that actually works really well.

Kitiger, RN · Apr 18, 2021

I should think the hold that the Democrats have on the House and Senate - and the fact that our President is a Democrat - is more than enough counterbalance to the conservative Supreme Court.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 18, 2021

42 minutes ago, Kitiger said:

I should think the hold that the Democrats have on the House and Senate - and the fact that our President is a Democrat - is more than enough counterbalance to the conservative Supreme Court.

I don't agree.

heron, ASN, RN · Apr 18, 2021

58 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Trickle down social engineering is really just role modeling and that actually works really well.

We have been “role modeling” progressive values from the top down for over 60 years. That’s two generations. In that time, we’ve seen the rise of white supremacists to the top offices in the land, the proliferation of symptoms of cultural malaise like random violence and all kinds of addiction, and the whole country lurching so far to the right that William F. Buckley would be kicked out of the Republican Party as a left-wing extremist. Not my idea of “really well.”

Since 1960, every democratic administration has been followed by a Republican backlash that has been progressively more right-wing and irrational over time. Why is that? What’s next - a putsch, only successful this time?

Voting the bad actors out and pursuing criminal prosecutions where appropriate and possible is only a start. I’m arguing that we need to start as we mean to go on. Do we really want to game the system just like the bad guys, with no consideration of ethics or long-term consequences? Does it make sense to continue to make the same mistakes as we have for half a century now?

SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 18, 2021

6 minutes ago, heron said:

Do we really want to game the system just like the bad guys, with no consideration of ethics or long-term consequences? Does it make sense to continue to make the same mistakes as we have for half a century now?

I understand your point. However, over the past 60 years the bad guys have gotten away with too much because we see their form of politics as "gaming the system." It is not. It is setting the agenda and writing the rules. We need to do more of that and less of being afraid of "what-ifs" because not only are too many lives at stake (ours), they will do their very worse not matter what.

Republican politicians are ruthless and they can care less how many human beings they hurt in trying to take power. For them it is all about money and power at the expense of everybody else. We need to be ruthless in supporting stated American ideals and values. That means we need to play the game by knocking those white supremist coddling bigots on their heels (play offensively) and fight back (play defensively) against their tyrannical bigoted racist agenda.

heron, ASN, RN · Apr 19, 2021

57 minutes ago, SummerGarden said:

I understand your point. However, over the past 60 years the bad guys have gotten away with too much because we see their form of politics as "gaming the system." It is not. It is setting the agenda and writing the rules. We need to do more of that and less of being afraid of "what-ifs" because not only are too many lives at stake (ours), they will do their very worse not matter what.

Republican politicians are ruthless and they can care less how many human beings they hurt in trying to take power. For them it is all about money and power at the expense of everybody else. We need to be ruthless in supporting stated American ideals and values. That means we need to play the game by knocking those white supremist coddling bigots on their heels (play offensively) and fight back (play defensively) against their tyrannical bigoted racist agenda.

I agree with your first paragraph ... can you say ALEC, boys and girls? Their “model legislation” makes for an interesting read. This is why I am uncomfortable with superficial approaches such as ignoring elections for all but the highest federal offices, for instance. Or going after the figureheads like Gaetz, Miller, and dear leader and calling it done.

So, perhaps I should have written “rigging the system” instead ... like enlarging the Supreme Court so we can pack it just like the previous administration did. I want us to think verrry carefully before we go there.

It’s the fight back part that most concerns me. I see little consideration given by progressives to how our own behavior contributes to and reinforces the general corruption and polarization in the country. Nor do I see much activity around restoring the effectiveness of our public school system, for instance. Or threading the needle between fact and self-serving spin.

The right-wing power base isn’t going to roll over and play dead, just because we kicked out the most egregious politicians. They’ll have to be persuaded to return to some semblance of rational thought ... and that does not equal agreeing with the progressive agenda. (Consider the concept of dynamic equilibrium.)

We can be ruthless without being just as oppressive and exploitive as they are. This is why I support using reconciliation to pass the Covid relief and infrastructure plans. If Republicans refuse to collaborate in any meaningful way, we proceed without them. However ... the invitation to collaborate needs to be based on being willing to compromise where reasonable ... and that willingness needs to exist on both sides of the debate.

AND we need to be just as ruthless fighting corruption in our own ranks. Trading a progressive despot for a reactionary one is not my idea of a good thing.

guest1163268 · Apr 19, 2021

2 hours ago, heron said:

We have been “role modeling” progressive values from the top down for over 60 years. That’s two generations. In that time, we’ve seen the rise of white supremacists to the top offices in the land, the proliferation of symptoms of cultural malaise like random violence and all kinds of addiction, and the whole country lurching so far to the right that William F. Buckley would be kicked out of the Republican Party as a left-wing extremist. Not my idea of “really well.”

Since 1960, every democratic administration has been followed by a Republican backlash that has been progressively more right-wing and irrational over time. Why is that? What’s next - a putsch, only successful this time?

Voting the bad actors out and pursuing criminal prosecutions where appropriate and possible is only a start. I’m arguing that we need to start as we mean to go on. Do we really want to game the system just like the bad guys, with no consideration of ethics or long-term consequences? Does it make sense to continue to make the same mistakes as we have for half a century now?

We don't need to game system but once. Stack the Supreme Court and do away with the filibuster. That's all. That way we can make the reforms outlawing gerrymandering and voter suppression. That is all I want. Then let the best man win.

Demographics are we have superior numbers going forward to ensure victory everytime. Look at the popular vote in the last few elections.

To play the game you have to get on the team.

SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 19, 2021

1 hour ago, heron said:

So, perhaps I should have written “rigging the system” instead ... like enlarging the Supreme Court so we can pack it just like the previous administration did. I want us to think verrry carefully before we go there.

Terms like "stacking" the Supreme Court is apt for Trump. He put two unqualified individuals on the Supreme Court very quickly and without vetting. Unless they are removed (impeached), it is not stacking the system if the Supreme Court is expanded. It is playing by the actual rules that are already in place.

Also, I have to disagree that the political system is balanced and fair in such a way that President Biden and his administration need not do anything right now, but play nice. When in fact, as it stands, the system is already rigged because Republicans rigged it!

Over 60 years of Republican rule throughout the country did nothing, but gerrymander voting districts and made other laws to suppress the vote of those who may not wish to vote Trump Republican to make an increasingly shrinking conservative (and bigoted) group of people appear as if their ideas are the majority in a democracy when in fact their ideas are ancient and people supporting their twisted idea of America are shrinking. Thus, I disagree that if progressive politicians choose to be more assertive in countering the imbalance now, it is considered playing corrupt of foul. It is not.

However, I agree that we should be vigilant of corruption, but I am not worried about the Biden administration. Unlike the soul-less Trump administration, President Biden is not a Neo-Nazi sympathizing egocentric illiterate traitor. In fact, there is no equivalent to the twice impeached Trump in the Democratic Party or involved with the progressive agenda. If there is or are such individuals, I agree that the individual(s) or the organization(s) should be rooted out at all cost.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 19, 2021

If everyone breaks the rules then we have lost the quest for a more perfect union.