What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

Luna20 · Jul 20, 2022

On 5/18/2022 at 12:32 AM, MunoRN said:

Or, more commonly, it's discovered in the third trimester that there's a condition where best case scenario they pass away shortly after birth, worst case they have to suffer for days before death finally comes.

I'm all for having no third trimester abortions, but not where that just increases the amount of moral harm that occurs. Having simply put off the decision until later in the pregnancy is certainly worthy of criticism, although in studies on the subject the most common reason for delaying that long is that there was limited access to an abortion earlier, so if the main problem the pro-life crowd has is third trimester abortions, then limiting access is the worst way to prevent that.

I would agree that on the surface a 32 week abortion sounds unjustifiable, but it's worth considering the actual cases involved.

Why a NY woman came to Colorado for a 32-week abortion (denverpost.com)

I don't really agree with much that Pete Buttigieg, but this was well put:

Third trimester abortions are deliveries (lady partsl or c-section) of fetuses with fatal anomalies such as anencephaly, trisomy 13 & 18, etc. They are done in the hospital on the L&D unit. Why would we criticize parents who "put off the decision until later in the pregnancy?" These parents wanted these pregnancies and then got devastating news.

The hypothetical "abortions" that are being discussed in this thread and in the media show that people need so much more education about abortions. Real education, not "education" provided by pro-birthers.

Beerman, BSN · Jul 20, 2022

14 minutes ago, Luna20 said:

Absolutely no one is deciding at 30 weeks that they just no longer want to continue their pregnancy. Also, no OB or abortion provider would perform an abortion on a healthy 30 weeker. That would be infanticide and we don't do that. Abortions performed past the age of viability are deliveries of fetuses with fatal anomalies. We deliver these fetuses lady partslly or by c-section and allow them to die peacefully in their parent's arms. Please stop perpetuating this false and damaging narrative.

Well, that is your belief. Of course, you don't know any of that for a fact.

Anyway, let's put that aside.

Sounds like you'd be OK with a time restriction on abortion, allowing for some exceptions such as for fatal anomalies?

Luna20 · Jul 20, 2022

On 5/18/2022 at 4:04 PM, Beerman said:

Yes, I do believe there will be some. I don't know how many. What would be an acceptable number to you?

Let's not go to the extreme of a "last minute on a whim" example. How about if a woman and doctor decide in private that at 28 weeks she should get an abortion because her situation has changed and she decides she can't support a child, is that acceptable to you? What would be the latest for that situation that would be acceptable?

The study I linked to had a subject group of women that were interviewed who were denied abortions because they were past the gestational age that was allowed. At the time, that would be 20 weeks in Mississippi, and at least 22 weeks everywhere else. So, it's clear some do seek abortions later in pregnancy.

I don't have a uterus. But I'm entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else. For the record, I've already said I think abortions should be allowed up to a certain point, about 16 weeks, with some exceptions to get them later. And, that falls in line with most Americans in polls. So, throwing your hands up in frustration at me seems a bit dramatic.

You're the second person who has mentioned infanticide. I have not. Where are you getting that I think anyone wants that?

That's an article and not a study. No one is going to perform an abortion on a healthy pregnancy because that would be infanticide. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Why do you believe that women or doctors are just out there making decisions like the hypothetical ones that you are suggesting? Stop listening to the media and use some critical thinking skills. If an abortion is performed after the age of viability (24 weeks) it is for a fatal anomaly. Delivery (vag or c/s) of a fetus where the expected outcome is death during labor, delivery, or shortly thereafter is an abortion and that is what is happening in these "third trimester'" abortions.

Luna20 · Jul 20, 2022

4 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Well, that is your belief. Of course, you don't know any of that for a fact.

Anyway, let's put that aside.

Sounds like you'd be OK with a time restriction on abortion, allowing for some exceptions such as for fatal anomalies?

I am an L&D nurse, so I know this for a fact and not simply an opinion. I am pro-choice because I have seen up close and personal all the things that can happen during pregnancy, labor, and delivery. I have held patients as they have sobbed over their very wanted babies with conditions that were incompatible with life. I have coded women who should never get pregnant again because the next pregnancy will kill them and they were extremely lucky to survive the most recent one. So many people seem to think that pregnancy and L&D are easy and sunshine/rainbows.

The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates. We should not be forcing women to continue pregnancies that they do not want or that will potentially kill them.

I am so tired of this attack on women. I am tired of these hypothetical situations that forced birthers are making up to incite emotions in people. They are untrue and are causing real harm to real women.

The government and religion need to keep out of healthcare, especially when these people haven't the slightest understanding of pregnancy, fetal development, labor, delivery, medicine, etc.

Beerman, BSN · Jul 20, 2022

36 minutes ago, Luna20 said:

I am an L&D nurse, so I know this for a fact and not simply an opinion. I am pro-choice because I have seen up close and personal all the things that can happen during pregnancy, labor, and delivery. I have held patients as they have sobbed over their very wanted babies with conditions that were incompatible with life. I have coded women who should never get pregnant again because the next pregnancy will kill them and they were extremely lucky to survive the most recent one. So many people seem to think that pregnancy and L&D are easy and sunshine/rainbows.

The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates. We should not be forcing women to continue pregnancies that they do not want or that will potentially kill them.

I am so tired of this attack on women. I am tired of these hypothetical situations that forced birthers are making up to incite emotions in people. They are untrue and are causing real harm to real women.

The government and religion need to keep out of healthcare, especially when these people haven't the slightest understanding of pregnancy, fetal development, labor, delivery, medicine, etc.

I'm not getting how being a L&D nurse makes you an expert on the women who want abortions.

Doesn't matter. You're late to this party, and probably haven't read all the posts here on this topic. So, I'm not going deep into this again, but will hit a couple points.

There is no "attack on women". The Supreme Court has simply said abortion is not a right provided by the Constitution.

Most Americans believe there should be restrictions on abortion.

According to a poll, 15% of Democrats are going against what you're saying, and believe there should NOT be any restrictions on abortion.

The WH seems to be in agreement.

If you believe there is no demand or supply for late-term abortions, than what is the problem on restricting them?

And, FYI, I believe abortions should be allowed up to a certain gestational age, with some exceptions for them to be done later.

MaybeeRN · Jul 20, 2022

59 minutes ago, Luna20 said:

Absolutely no one is deciding at 30 weeks that they just no longer want to continue their pregnancy. Also, no OB or abortion provider would perform an abortion on a healthy 30 weeker. That would be infanticide and we don't do that. Abortions performed past the age of viability are deliveries of fetuses with fatal anomalies. We deliver these fetuses lady partslly or by c-section and allow them to die peacefully in their parent's arms. Please stop perpetuating this false and damaging narrative.

Yeah partial birth abortions are just a myth. People could decide to abort for all sorts of reasons later. This is the same garbage we get from the "squad" about surgical ectopic pregnancies being illegal.

31 minutes ago, Luna20 said:

I am an L&D nurse, so I know this for a fact and not simply an opinion. I am pro-choice because I have seen up close and personal all the things that can happen during pregnancy, labor, and delivery. I have held patients as they have sobbed over their very wanted babies with conditions that were incompatible with life. I have coded women who should never get pregnant again because the next pregnancy will kill them and they were extremely lucky to survive the most recent one. So many people seem to think that pregnancy and L&D are easy and sunshine/rainbows.

The US has one of the highest maternal mortality rates. We should not be forcing women to continue pregnancies that they do not want or that will potentially kill them.

I am so tired of this attack on women. I am tired of these hypothetical situations that forced birthers are making up to incite emotions in people. They are untrue and are causing real harm to real women.

The government and religion need to keep out of healthcare, especially when these people haven't the slightest understanding of pregnancy, fetal development, labor, delivery, medicine, etc.

First define for a us a woman? Secondly, the only attack on women is from Democrats who think a guy with his dong attached can wear a dress and now play women's sports and use their changing room.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 20, 2022

7 hours ago, Beerman said:

Well, that is your belief. Of course, you don't know any of that for a fact.

Anyway, let's put that aside.

Sounds like you'd be OK with a time restriction on abortion, allowing for some exceptions such as for fatal anomalies?

That's what the data shows...once again you'd rather dismiss the facts to stick with the feelings.

We HAD restrictions on abortions before the stacked SCOTUS decided that there is no such thing as settled law and there are no consequences for lying in Trump's USA.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 20, 2022

7 hours ago, Beerman said:

I'm not getting how being a L&D nurse makes you an expert on the women who want abortions.

Doesn't matter. You're late to this party, and probably haven't read all the posts here on this topic. So, I'm not going deep into this again, but will hit a couple points.

There is no "attack on women". The Supreme Court has simply said abortion is not a right provided by the Constitution.

Most Americans believe there should be restrictions on abortion.

According to a poll, 15% of Democrats are going against what you're saying, and believe there should NOT be any restrictions on abortion.

The WH seems to be in agreement.

If you believe there is no demand or supply for late-term abortions, than what is the problem on restricting them?

And, FYI, I believe abortions should be allowed up to a certain gestational age, with some exceptions for them to be done later.

LOL

You aren't a L&D nurse, clearly NOT an expert in reproductive healthcare and yet you share your misinformed opinions on abortions here... that makes it odd for you to question qualifications of those of us who do have knowledge and expertise.

Most Americans are unhappy with the efforts of the stacked SCOTUS to destabilize our society with these attacks on freedom.

You should link to the polls that frighten you because it wasn't liberals that turned abortion laws upside-down across the country... that actual action is what should disturb you... not a scary poll that you won't or can't link.

These mythical late abortions you keep referencing were already significantly restricted... now it's not easy to get even the simplest abortions in some states, difficult even. (We provided the data for these abortions long ago... of course you ignored that to hold onto your fear of this mythical procedure)

You say that you think something about abortion at the same time that you believe and share nonsense about abortion. It's not a convincing argument presentation.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 20, 2022

7 hours ago, MaybeeRN said:

Yeah partial birth abortions are just a myth. People could decide to abort for all sorts of reasons later. This is the same garbage we get from the "squad" about surgical ectopic pregnancies being illegal.

First define for a us a woman? Secondly, the only attack on women is from Democrats who think a guy with his dong attached can wear a dress and now play women's sports and use their changing room.

Geezus it's crazy to me that other "conservatives" would want to be associated with your brand of discussion or logic.

It's telling that your words reflect that you believe that abortion and gender issues are about "Democrat" thinking. That, in my view, is additional evidence of your indoctrination. Your cohort MAGA comes across as more radicalized but you aren't that far down the pathway yet.

chare · Jul 20, 2022

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

[...]

These mythical late abortions you keep referencing were already significantly restricted... now it's not easy to get even the simplest abortions in some states, difficult even. (We provided the data for these abortions long ago... of course you ignored that to hold onto your fear of this mythical procedure)

[...]

I think the question whether one supports abortion on demand, regardless of gestational age is fair. If I’m reading this correctly, six states (Alaska, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont) and the District of Columbia allow abortion without gestational age limitations. This site did not provide any data regarding if, and how frequently late term abortions were performed.

Of the 8 states that banned abortion, only Ohio does not include an exception in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened or a lethal fetal anomaly is present. Four states (Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life is threatened. Two states (Alabama and Missouri) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life and/or physical health is threatened. And Mississippi allows abortion in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened as well as the presence of a lethal fetal anomaly.

toomuchbaloney · Jul 20, 2022

3 minutes ago, chare said:

I think the question whether one supports abortion on demand, regardless of gestational age is fair. If I’m reading this correctly, six states (Alaska, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont) and the District of Columbia allow abortion without gestational age limitations. This site did not provide any data regarding if, and how frequently late term abortions were performed.

Of the 8 states that banned abortion, only Ohio does not include an exception in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened or a lethal fetal anomaly is present. Four states (Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life is threatened. Two states (Alabama and Missouri) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life and/or physical health is threatened. And Mississippi allows abortion in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened as well as the presence of a lethal fetal anomaly.

Gah...yeah and the data collected shows when during gestation this terminations are completed... that data demonstrates that this concern is emotional and not based in actual evidence. It's a question that is important to SOME ... similar to the question about defining a woman... it's political rhetoric that's intended to introduce feelings into discussions about human rights and freedoms.

By the way, Alaska has privacy language in it's state constitution that Alaskan Republicans are going to try to amend so that they can restrict access to abortion in the state. Travel out of state for abortion is not easy in Alaska where women are murdered, raped and disappeared more often than nearly anywhere else in the civilized world.

Chare, how do you define late term abortion? Are you aware that most abortions performed after 20 weeks are done so because of actions, processes and obstacles which are intended to delay or obstruct access to reproductive care and those abortions represent less than 10% of all abortions?

heron, ASN, RN · Jul 20, 2022

26 minutes ago, chare said:

I think the question whether one supports abortion on demand, regardless of gestational age is fair. If I’m reading this correctly, six states (Alaska, Colorado, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont) and the District of Columbia allow abortion without gestational age limitations. This site did not provide any data regarding if, and how frequently late term abortions were performed.

Of the 8 states that banned abortion, only Ohio does not include an exception in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened or a lethal fetal anomaly is present. Four states (Arkansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life is threatened. Two states (Alabama and Missouri) allow abortion in cases where the mother’s life and/or physical health is threatened. And Mississippi allows abortion in cases where the mother’s life and or physical health is threatened as well as the presence of a lethal fetal anomaly.

The question has been asked and answered by multiple members, myself included. The problem, chare, is that not passing a law against something is not the same as supporting something. So far, no one has produced a single case of late term abortion (as in post-viability) that was not medically indicated. Why pass a law against something that doesn’t occur? Kind of like passing a law against the sun rising in the west.