What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

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Something to understand what nurses think about re the Current News and their opinions!

31 minutes ago, heron said:

The question has been asked and answered by multiple members, myself included. The problem, chare, is that not passing a law against something is not the same as supporting something. So far, no one has produced a single case of late term abortion (as in post-viability) that was not medically indicated. Why pass a law against something that doesn’t occur? Kind of like passing a law against the sun rising in the west.

Yes, been asked and answered, but your memory has failed you. Let me refresh it.

First, there isn't very good statistical data on the reasons late.

However:

"Hern has seen many reasons for why women seek abortions later in pregnancy, including a missed diagnosis, a fetal anomaly or genetic disorder in a desired pregnancy, the fear that a relationship will collapse because of the impending birth, lack of money and/or transportation to get to an abortion clinic early, ignorance of signs and symptoms of pregnancy, especially in young women and fear, shame or guilt over the situation."

https://denvergazette.com/news/local/colorado-late-term-abortion-doctor-im-not-going-anywhere/article_ed808cbe-cc9f-11ec-9158-efd60e4b0ccf.html

From the above MD's website.  Notice he uses "often" and "sometimes", not "always":

"Patients coming in for third trimester abortion (later abortions) are often seeking services for termination of a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. This usually means the discovery of a catastrophic fetal anomaly or genetic disorder that guarantees death, suffering, or serious disability for the baby that would be delivered if the pregnancy were to continue to term. (Please see Fetal Anomalies for more information on our care for patients with desired pregnancies.) Sometimes a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication."

https://www.drhern.com/third-trimester-abortion/

We don't know how many abortions have been done for non-medical reasons.   But, we know it happens. 

And, we certainly don't know how many more have requested them.

It's foreseeable that if there is no restrictions on late-term abortions, more of them will occur.

 

 

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Specializes in Hospice.
28 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Yes, been asked and answered, but your memory has failed you. Let me refresh it.

First, there isn't very good statistical data on the reasons late.

However:

"Hern has seen many reasons for why women seek abortions later in pregnancy, including a missed diagnosis, a fetal anomaly or genetic disorder in a desired pregnancy, the fear that a relationship will collapse because of the impending birth, lack of money and/or transportation to get to an abortion clinic early, ignorance of signs and symptoms of pregnancy, especially in young women and fear, shame or guilt over the situation."

https://denvergazette.com/news/local/colorado-late-term-abortion-doctor-im-not-going-anywhere/article_ed808cbe-cc9f-11ec-9158-efd60e4b0ccf.html

From the above MD's website.  Notice he uses "often" and "sometimes", not "always":

"Patients coming in for third trimester abortion (later abortions) are often seeking services for termination of a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. This usually means the discovery of a catastrophic fetal anomaly or genetic disorder that guarantees death, suffering, or serious disability for the baby that would be delivered if the pregnancy were to continue to term. (Please see Fetal Anomalies for more information on our care for patients with desired pregnancies.) Sometimes a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication."

https://www.drhern.com/third-trimester-abortion/

We don't know how many abortions have been done for non-medical reasons.   But, we know it happens. 

And, we certainly don't know how many more have requested them.

It's foreseeable that if there is no restrictions on late-term abortions, more of them will occur.

 

 

As you know, it’s logically impossible to prove a negative. All it takes to knock it out is a single example … I’m waiting.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
30 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Yes, been asked and answered, but your memory has failed you. Let me refresh it.

First, there isn't very good statistical data on the reasons late.

However:

"Hern has seen many reasons for why women seek abortions later in pregnancy, including a missed diagnosis, a fetal anomaly or genetic disorder in a desired pregnancy, the fear that a relationship will collapse because of the impending birth, lack of money and/or transportation to get to an abortion clinic early, ignorance of signs and symptoms of pregnancy, especially in young women and fear, shame or guilt over the situation."

https://denvergazette.com/news/local/colorado-late-term-abortion-doctor-im-not-going-anywhere/article_ed808cbe-cc9f-11ec-9158-efd60e4b0ccf.html

From the above MD's website.  Notice he uses "often" and "sometimes", not "always":

"Patients coming in for third trimester abortion (later abortions) are often seeking services for termination of a desired pregnancy that has developed serious complications. This usually means the discovery of a catastrophic fetal anomaly or genetic disorder that guarantees death, suffering, or serious disability for the baby that would be delivered if the pregnancy were to continue to term. (Please see Fetal Anomalies for more information on our care for patients with desired pregnancies.) Sometimes a woman presents at this stage for pregnancy termination because of her own severe medical illness or a psychiatric indication."

https://www.drhern.com/third-trimester-abortion/

We don't know how many abortions have been done for non-medical reasons.   But, we know it happens. 

And, we certainly don't know how many more have requested them.

It's foreseeable that if there is no restrictions on late-term abortions, more of them will occur.

 

 

So you don't like his word choice? 

You surely won't have any idea about abortion data now that republicans are pushing it underground...not that there's evidence that conservative anti-abortion zealots pay attention to the data.

How do you know that 3rd trimester abortion occurs for other than medical reasons? Do you imagine that there are lots of women who plan to abort after 32 weeks gestation is that why you commented on not knowing how many women might request that? Do you think it might be as many women wanting late abortions as there are young angry men wanting assault rifles?

You should provide evidence to support your concern.  

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3 minutes ago, heron said:

As you know, it’s logically impossible to prove a negative. All it takes to knock it out is a single example … I’m waiting.

Waiting for what?

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
8 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Waiting for what?

Waiting for you to provide some evidence that women are asking to terminate healthy pregnancies in the last trimester. You've never been able to support that fear with facts or evidence... we're still waiting.  

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Specializes in Hospice.
8 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Waiting for what?

Disingenuousness doesn’t advance your case - just makes you look like an idiot. In words of one syllable: all it takes to shoot down assertions that non-medical post-viability abortions don’t occur is a single example.

Your absent sidekick couldn’t produce an example of a pro-choice activist calling for abortion on demand up to time of delivery (one nut-job recently talked about “post-birth” abortions!) Now you’re flogging the idea that they are already occurring. One example. I’m waiting …

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9 minutes ago, heron said:

Disingenuousness doesn’t advance your case - just makes you look like an idiot. In words of one syllable: all it takes to shoot down assertions that non-medical post-viability abortions don’t occur is a single example.

Your absent sidekick couldn’t produce an example of a pro-choice activist calling for abortion on demand up to time of delivery (one nut-job recently talked about “post-birth” abortions!) Now you’re flogging the idea that they are already occurring. One example. I’m waiting …

I provided a quote from a MD who has provided late-term abortions for over 40 years in which he lists reasons his cliente have seemed those abortions.  Not all of those are medical.   Today is not the first time I've provided that quote in this thread.

Here's a another example I found just now.  

"One young woman, for example, was so afraid that her parents would judge her for becoming pregnant and wanting an abortion that she took no action toward getting the abortion. By the time she felt able to confide in her brother, who was able to get her an appointment for an abortion, she was in the third trimester of pregnancy."

https://theconversation.com/less-than-1-of-abortions-take-place-in-the-third-trimester-heres-why-people-get-them-182580

I'm not sure who my sidekick is.  Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?  

 

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Specializes in Hospice.

When I was a good Catholic teenybopper back in the early sixties, our parish held what were called “missions” (I think) … kind of a Catholic version of revival meetings. One day, when I was 11 or 12, the priest was delivering a sermon on purity. He thundered that if one is walking down the street and had a single fleeting impure thought then got hit and killed by a care, the soul would go straight to hell. This to a congregation full of barely pubescent kids. The objective was to scare us into towing the church’s line on sexual behavior.

The strategy of painting the most extreme scenario possible in order to force the debate to focus on improbabilities instead of lived experience is an old one. It repulses people, and promotes the idea that anyone who is pro choice must be trying for wholesale infanticide.

It also prevents people from thinking about the real issues: privacy, physical autonomy, reproductive rights and the separation of church and state, to name a few.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
20 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I provided a quote from a MD who has provided late-term abortions for over 40 years in which he lists reasons his cliente have seemed those abortions.  Not all of those are medical.   Today is not the first time I've provided that quote in this thread.

Here's a another example I found just now.  

"One young woman, for example, was so afraid that her parents would judge her for becoming pregnant and wanting an abortion that she took no action toward getting the abortion. By the time she felt able to confide in her brother, who was able to get her an appointment for an abortion, she was in the third trimester of pregnancy."

https://theconversation.com/less-than-1-of-abortions-take-place-in-the-third-trimester-heres-why-people-get-them-182580

I'm not sure who my sidekick is.  Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?  

 

And why did that anecdotal "young woman" delay the care? Oh right,  in that anecdote it was fear. 

Now maybe try for data or facts rather than anecdote. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

This was interesting...

 

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Specializes in Hospice.
40 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I provided a quote from a MD who has provided late-term abortions for over 40 years in which he lists reasons his cliente have seemed those abortions.  Not all of those are medical.   Today is not the first time I've provided that quote in this thread.

Here's a another example I found just now.  

"One young woman, for example, was so afraid that her parents would judge her for becoming pregnant and wanting an abortion that she took no action toward getting the abortion. By the time she felt able to confide in her brother, who was able to get her an appointment for an abortion, she was in the third trimester of pregnancy."

https://theconversation.com/less-than-1-of-abortions-take-place-in-the-third-trimester-heres-why-people-get-them-182580

I'm not sure who my sidekick is.  Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?  

 

Fair enough. Now explain why this incident justifies the government take-over of women’s reproductive decisions.

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48 minutes ago, heron said:

Fair enough. Now explain why this incident justifies the government take-over of women’s reproductive decisions.

It doesn't, and I've never said that it did.

However, like most Americans, I believe at some point the unborn becomes a valued human life and as such deserves some protections.

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