Ok, first of all let me say that I want this thread to be productive and not be reduced to flaming one another...
I just finished reading another thread where a student posted an initiative started by the state of CA (in 2001)that supported a bill being passed for the BSN to be the entry point into the nursing profession and all others with their ASN would be grandfathered in.
There were a few comments posted that started to border on being peeved about this even being a remote possibility and I could predict that if the thread were to continue there would be posts flaming one another back and forth about whether or not the nursing profession should progress to that point.
So, my question to all that want to remain civil about this idea, is what if men dominated the nursing profession? Would we still be talking and squabbling over the changes that should/need to be taking place in this field or would these changes have already occurred back in 2001, nationwide.
As a side note, before I even went back to school, I thought that it was so odd that the nursing field had so many entry points...a person with his or her diploma/LVN/LPN/ASN/RN are all considered to be nurses. It's absolutely unbelievable to me. I know of no other field that considers itself to be a profession that allows for so many entry points.
I've never seen a field so fragmented and resistant to change.
don't flame me ladies (cuz i love ya guys! :redpinkhe), but if men dominated the nursing profession, it would probably be slightly more well-respected in the medical community. there would definitely be less crap taken from physicians. the average salary would be close to $80,000/yr at least. men love to negotiate their salaries and aren't afraid to ask for more mula. we have less of a florence nightingale "i am called to serve and money is an afterthought to my servitude" attitude, and more "i am a professional and demand fair compensation" attitude. oh...yeah...and there would be a lot less hello kitty scrub tops.
although, to be fair, ems is a male-dominated field and it has more than its share of the "sacred calling" types who somehow think getting paid for doing this kind of job is almost wrong.
and, ems salaries are way lower than corresponding hospital salaries. paramedics have a very similar level of training to an adn (not exactly the same type, but as far as level of procedure that can be done they can actually do more in some cases) and they are lucky to make slightly more than half of an rn, so it's not just a male/female thing.
And, EMS salaries are WAY lower than corresponding hospital salaries. Paramedics have a very similar level of training to an ADN (not exactly the same type, but as far as level of procedure that can be done they can actually do more in some cases) and they are lucky to make slightly more than half of an RN, so it's not just a male/female thing.
Yes, but I think that is due largely to the fact that EMS is still relatively new when compared to nursing. I think that in time, the salaries in EMS will increase. They are experiencing the same growing pains that nursing has gone through in the past.
Yes, but I think that is due largely to the fact that EMS is still relatively new when compared to nursing. I think that in time, the salaries in EMS will increase. They are experiencing the same growing pains that nursing has gone through in the past.
I am not sure about your assessment. EMS has many people that simply make it a hobby. Many people like to get an EMT Basic card and play EMT on their days off. Many are not paid, and I do not see services with unpaid or minimal wage EMS workers pushing for better wages. In addition, I do not see many of these workers pushing for professional paid EMS services, so, the cycle continues.
Look at paramedic wages. You have many medics graduating with AAS degrees. IMHO this is equal to the entry level RN as far as education and entry into practice. You need only to compare the pathetic medic wages to what their AAS educated nurse counterparts are making.
I agree to some extent that EMS is more of a male dominated profession. However, EMS in general has multiple problems with wages, benefits, working conditions, and public percetion. (Ambulance driver anybody?) So, here we have a profession that is no better and in many ways worse than nursing.
God bless the EMS workers, they have a tough road to travel.
For the first time in my nursing profession I am actually working with male nurses, and I have to say it makes a delightful change. I find them interesting, funny, hard working, informed, compassionate and on occasions as involved with titbits of gossip as much as my female cohorts.
On my floor there are almost as many males as there are females. I do tend to associate with strong women who have very few tearful interludes and emotional outbursts so I cannot agree with this statement
Are less inclined to take crap from abusive management types. Men who are confronted by idiots seldom go off "for a good cry." Usually, we will deal with the issue at hand.
We have no problem fac ing up to management and on one occasion I actually brought in research and presented it to the CEO on abusive Medical staff and how we should be dealing with it. to this day 3 months on I have heard nothing.
The CEO's at my hospital are male RN's who do not have BSN's or higher and they do tend to support the doctors when it comes down to it.
Kind of a whole thread by itself in the one sentence :chuckle.
Hey, most of us females hate those pastel colors and that nasty green moldy look too. A few years back our nurse manager had colors up for staff to vote on for our lounge. The majority voted for a blue and she came in and told us it was already decided to go with the ugly mauve. To this day none of us can figure out the reason behind hanging the colors for a vote.......
i know its not responding to the op, but i really, really need to respond to this post first...
there is no nursing shortage anyplace in this country. there is only a shortage of nurses who are willing to work in a hospital.
have you considered that, perhaps if potential nurses had to spend four years in school, and it wasn't such "quick" road to a good paying job, that nursing would make more of an effort to change what is so unpleasant about the career field, and not be so quick to continue to jump ship every couple of years?
if more of an effort was needed to become a nurses we would have more of a stake in our career. you don't see doctors, pharmacists, physical therapists, etc, leaving their profession the way nurses do. why is that? yes, they have a better quality of life than nurses do, and if they don't, they make alot more money to compensate them for the unpleasant aspects of it. and they also have alot more control than we do. the control that they have allows them to make their job more tolerable.
nurses just don't seem to have the attitude that nursing is a career, not just a job. we allow ourselves to be bullied out of lousy working condition, only to go somewhere else long enough until we cannot tolerate that job either. and hospitals just love it when experienced nurses leave, and then they can hire a new grad for half the pay. we play right into their hands when we play "musical employment". longer education times would do alot to solve that. and by the way, physical therapy assistants have an two year associates degree as entry into practice. we ought to be ashamed.
when you have spend four or more years to get into the profession, you have more of a stake in it, and are more willing to stick around and change what is bad. jmho, and my ny $0.02.
lindarn,
rn
, bsn, ccrn
spokane, washington
i have an adn. i just passed the nclex. i spent 2 full years taking prereqs, 2.5 on a waiting list, and a final 2 in the actual program. i've earned a full 75 credits doing it. it wasn't a "quick road" to anything! if you think i'm going to "jump ship" when things get rough just because i took some sort of easy way to "just" earn my adn, you are dead wrong. i am absolutely determined to make any positive changed to my career as i can. i am proud of what i've accomplished and am willing to test my knowledge, clinical skills, and dedication to my profession against any new bsn out there. what i need now is solid mentoring and support from experienced nurses like yourself. unfortunately, its tough getting it. my .
to the op (finally): i think the big differences would be in pay (more of it), and lateral aggression/violence (less of it). i'd think in an already male dominated world, male dominated nursing would be more respected and less marginalized. and nurses wouldn't be protrayed as meek, self sacrificing partly/tightly clad angels. i'm picturing fire breathing dragons. which would be kinda cool!
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bigjim
137 Posts
although, to be fair, ems is a male-dominated field and it has more than its share of the "sacred calling" types who somehow think getting paid for doing this kind of job is almost wrong.
and, ems salaries are way lower than corresponding hospital salaries. paramedics have a very similar level of training to an adn (not exactly the same type, but as far as level of procedure that can be done they can actually do more in some cases) and they are lucky to make slightly more than half of an rn, so it's not just a male/female thing.