Ok, first of all let me say that I want this thread to be productive and not be reduced to flaming one another...
I just finished reading another thread where a student posted an initiative started by the state of CA (in 2001)that supported a bill being passed for the BSN to be the entry point into the nursing profession and all others with their ASN would be grandfathered in.
There were a few comments posted that started to border on being peeved about this even being a remote possibility and I could predict that if the thread were to continue there would be posts flaming one another back and forth about whether or not the nursing profession should progress to that point.
So, my question to all that want to remain civil about this idea, is what if men dominated the nursing profession? Would we still be talking and squabbling over the changes that should/need to be taking place in this field or would these changes have already occurred back in 2001, nationwide.
As a side note, before I even went back to school, I thought that it was so odd that the nursing field had so many entry points...a person with his or her diploma/LVN/LPN/ASN/RN are all considered to be nurses. It's absolutely unbelievable to me. I know of no other field that considers itself to be a profession that allows for so many entry points.
I've never seen a field so fragmented and resistant to change.
I've worked in a factory with mostly men and thought for a long time it was great. There was very little PMS from coworkers (except me) and things went pretty smooth. I then changed to hospital and worked with mostly women. The change was a little difficult, but I found that it's pretty much the same on both sides. Besides, men pretty much dominate the upper spots now and there's plenty that needs fixing and I'm not sure if the tables were turned it would get any better.
don't flame me ladies (cuz i love ya guys! :redpinkhe), but if men dominated the nursing profession, it would probably be slightly more well-respected in the medical community. there would definitely be less crap taken from physicians. the average salary would be close to $80,000/yr at least. men love to negotiate their salaries and aren't afraid to ask for more mula. we have less of a florence nightingale "i am called to serve and money is an afterthought to my servitude" attitude, and more "i am a professional and demand fair compensation" attitude. oh...yeah...and there would be a lot less hello kitty scrub tops.
Besides, men pretty much dominate the upper spots now and there's plenty that needs fixing and I'm not sure if the tables were turned it would get any better.
It's not the top spots that need to be dominated by men to get change, it's the people at bedside. Until bedside nurses band together and quit taking attempts to improve the profession as a personal slight, things will stay the way they are.
I have had this very same thought myself when I have witnessed the in-fighting. However, I quickly brush it aside when I think about the world in which we live in.
A good example is Congress...it is a male dominated governing body and look at all the squabbling that takes place there. How much good could get done if people sat aside their differences and really focused on the problem at hand?
Unfortunately, this issue is human based not gender based. History is full of this, but if you look closely, there were a few people who were true leaders. They just had to find their voice and others with the same voice soon followed.
As far as the multiple entry points, nursing is just the tip of the iceberg. When you deal with something as complex as the human body, you are going to need to specialize and diversify, i.e. MDs, PAs, NPs, RNs, LPNs, CNAs...etc, etc. Just the many spokes of a wheel.
Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.
Well lets get some more men, because while they are off fighting for more money, I will still be there for my patients, holding thier hand, controlling thier pain and advocating for thier rights.
Well lets get some more men, because while they are off fighting for more money, I will still be there for my patients, holding thier hand, controlling thier pain and advocating for thier rights.
And there lies the problem, that people think we can't do BOTH: Advocate for our patients AND advocate for ourselves.
I feel along the same line as woknblues... It is not a matter of male or females dominating the positions as much as it is a matter of need, demand, and access in a particular field of work. It is the same if you break down retail. Employees consisiting of sales, lead sales, department mangers, assistant managers (some access to education or experience starts to take play here), store managers, district managers, regional managers, etc... and access to education moves you up. I think the same applies to nursing. There is a need for care, and people gain access at different levels allowing them to practice based on their level of education that they have acheived. This whole country seems to be run on different levels of beuraucracy no matter where you look, it seems to be the favored model wether successful or not.
Nurse simplified means caretaker - I think from CNA's to NP's, they all are caretakers to the best of their qualified abilities. Perhapse it is that the word nurse is attatched to so many different roles in the medical field that some feel a need to condense the nursing profession, or give each role new names to clarify each role better for the general public (?)...
This got me to thinking of when my father was an ordlerly in his youth, I haven't heard that term in a long time. But essentially that was akin to him having been a CNA, and this was something that if he chose to continue to pursue the medical feild at that time could have been his access to gain entry into the medical field with the few resources he had then. I feel maybe some of the resistance and upset over the idea of saying you can only be a part of the nursing field if you commit to this "X" level of education is that it then limits the opportunity of access for many. I also highly doubt one can say that one person can say they value their carreer more than another person based on the level of education they had the ability/access achieve.
Really? Nursing seems to be a constantly changing field.. as in the not so long ago implementation of and LPN's and other licenses..... possibly due to the fact nursing is a high in demand field with the constant growth and need to fill positions.
Another poster (from another thread) stated my exact feelings of why I feel having so many entry points into nursing has been problematic for our profession. (From the administration's point of view it boils down to the old theory of supply and demand). I do feel that current and past leaders in Nursing have been afraid to make the changes that so desparately need to occur in this field.
Linda makes some good points. Your question centered around the question would things be different if males dominated the profession and I'm not so sure that the many entry levels would change just because men dominated. Around here I see many men in LPN and ADN programs compared to the BSN. Especially the LPN program where men just want to get it over with, get out and make some money....then perhaps later get their RN. In the BSN clinical group there is one man. In the LPN clinical group there are six men. Men seem more likely to take the quickest route to nursing, perhaps because they are expected to be breadwinners and often enter nursing from other professions at a later age.
Men used to dominate the nursing profession on civil war battlefields.....MASH?, etc....
just imagine if you needed a "battle nurse"....."I'm hurting!!!" "Maam, unless you A)have blood gushing out of you, B) have shrapnel the size of al sharpton's afro coming out of you, or C) want a good shift pinch....You need to relax"
(can you tell I've had one of those nights where I wish I knew the vulcan nerve pinch?)
Specializes in Acute Care Cardiac, Education, Prof Practice.
And there lies the problem, that people think we can't do BOTH: Advocate for our patients AND advocate for ourselves.
I had more to add, along the lines, as I usually state that I am advocating for myself by promoting myself as a strong nurse, however my patient decided to pull his J-Tube out and I got a little busy.
chevyv, BSN, RN
1,679 Posts
I've worked in a factory with mostly men and thought for a long time it was great. There was very little PMS from coworkers (except me) and things went pretty smooth. I then changed to hospital and worked with mostly women. The change was a little difficult, but I found that it's pretty much the same on both sides. Besides, men pretty much dominate the upper spots now and there's plenty that needs fixing and I'm not sure if the tables were turned it would get any better.