What is up with the level of entitlement?

[sofla98]

I’m a seasoned nurse with a lot of years of experience. I work hard to take care of my patients and their basic needs, and then some. But what is up with these newer grads, like in their younger 20’s? The ones who started 2019-2020, bc something is way different. 

We’re all wondering what it is. 

They expect the charge nurses and other nurses to do their tasks/work for them and I’ve seen some actually whine, roll their eyes, etc. when they don’t get their way or they’re a little bit busy. 

It’s really starting to aggravate those of us over the age of 30, especially because if they don’t get their way they go to the manager and say “so and so didn’t help me enough” or “so and so wasn’t available and I couldn’t find them for an hour.”

I think it’s time I leave the hospital, to be honest. They are also incredibly hard to train. They don’t listen, get offended if you try to explain to them why something didn’t go well, or go complain to the manager. 

Our management is tired of it too. Is it the same personalities? Are they really that easily offended? Someone ELI5. Thanx. 

Don’t believe this is an issue? Just wait for the responses! LOL! 

[JKL33]

On 1/6/2021 at 11:23 AM, speedynurse said:

The toxic staff truly were the experienced nurses - they were constantly running to management.....they judged nurses new to the department instead of allowing them to learn.....they threw staff under the bus about things they knew nothing about like callouts (and some of these staff were dealing with very real issues like major health concerns or family deaths).....and they were almost overly invested in the department to the point they couldn’t separate themselves from department issues but then they complained constantly and would be almost irrational.....yelling at their teammates about issues instead of actually problem solving.

I saw this once after a take-over of a community hospital by a huge corp.

So in that case I could see the inappropriateness and at the same time completely understand it. There wasn't yelling but there was a fair amount of the attitude of "none of this [takeover or anything remotely associated with it] is good at all." And, in their defense, the Big Dogs had swooped into town with an unapologetic attitude of destruction along the lines, "We're here to tell you that every single thing you have ever done here is wrong."

So...I usually think there is more to the story as far as staff attitudes. That's one reason why I hate the popular use of the term burnout, which I would consider to more properly be applied to a situation where an individual finds themselves not enjoying otherwise enjoyable things any more due to over-exposure and over-familiarity. That definitely isn't the situation with what we are now calling burnout, where people are actually just rightfully fed up...and the revolving door will supply people who will also find themselves fed up more quickly than in times past.

[Guest856929]

1 hour ago, londonflo said:

No, If you don't have time to read my full thoughts, read my post later and gather your full thoughts. Thanks,

I did. Speaking of developing a consistent argument, what is your overall point? 

[speedynurse, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

22 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I saw this once after a take-over of a community hospital by a huge corp.

So in that case I could see the inappropriateness and at the same time completely understand it. There wasn't yelling but there was a fair amount of the attitude of "none of this [takeover or anything remotely associated with it] is good at all." And, in their defense, the Big Dogs had swooped into town with an unapologetic attitude of destruction along the lines, "We're here to tell you that every single thing you have ever done here is wrong."

So...I usually think there is more to the story as far as staff attitudes. That's one reason why I hate the popular use of the term burnout, which I would consider to more properly be applied to a situation where an individual finds themselves not enjoying otherwise enjoyable things any more due to over-exposure and over-familiarity. That definitely isn't the situation with what we are now calling burnout, where people are actually just rightfully fed up...and the revolving door will supply people who will also find themselves fed up more quickly than in times past.

I definitely agree that there is a lot more to burnout....then just.....well, burnout. I think the reason these nurses (and it was a minority of the staff but unfortunately it made it a toxic atmosphere).....is they were so far past burnout that they couldn’t see or think straight anymore. When a person truly can’t find anything positive about a situation.....the patients or staff or workplace, then it might be the time to change specialties or hospitals. I do understand a lot of this because I had ER burnout from super unsafe situations, but I was able to recognize the signs and apply to move to a better department.

[londonflo]

26 minutes ago, cynical-RN said:

what is your overall point? 

My points are specified after your quote and I see no need it iterate them. Reread them if so inclined to learn about nursing education.

[TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN]

19 hours ago, londonflo said:

You do need to develop a consistent argument.

 

My argument that the nurse shouldn't have to do the aides job, being supported by the fact that when I was an aide, I did my job, actually IS a consistent argument.

[Guest856929]

23 hours ago, londonflo said:

My points are specified after your quote and I see no need it iterate them. Reread them if so inclined to learn about nursing education.

There was lack of coherence, but Much obliged

[LibraNurse27, BSN, RN]

In regards to nursing students learning how to do CNA work, I think it's important. If you're expected to delegate tasks to a CNA, you need to know how to do them. Some hospitals don't have CNAs, some shifts there are none, etc. It's awkward to be a pt's nurse and not know how to do the whole rolling the sheets/chux/diaper thing LOL

Not all student nurses have worked as a CNA, but it's great experience if they have. If not, they need to learn the super basics like changing a pt in the bed, transfers to commode, glucose checks, etc. These tasks are important. They prevent pressure injuries, UTIs, etc. If you don't know how to transfer a pt to the commode they can fall. Aide work may seem "simple" but it is hard work and important. Nursing students need to appreciate what CNAs do and help when they can (not instead of doing their RN job). This isn't sucking up to CNAs or doing their job for them. If later you do end up working with a CNA who tries to pass their work on to you, you will be better equipped to handle the situation if you know their job.

Some, but not all, nursing students go in with the attitude that because they're in nursing school they know more than CNAs or are better than them. Better to be humble, respect and appreciate CNAs and learn from them. An experienced CNA knows way more about hands on care than a nursing student. Some CNAs are in nursing school too. And most are not "just" CNAs because they're too lazy or dumb to be a nurse. Many don't have the opportunity. IDK people just be nice LOL my old school instructor terrified me but I'm glad I knew how to change a bed on my first day as a nurse

[speedynurse, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

59 minutes ago, LibraNurse27 said:

In regards to nursing students learning how to do CNA work, I think it's important. If you're expected to delegate tasks to a CNA, you need to know how to do them. Some hospitals don't have CNAs, some shifts there are none, etc.

An experienced CNA knows way more about hands on care than a nursing student. Some CNAs are in nursing school too. And most are not "just" CNAs because they're too lazy or dumb to be a nurse. Many don't have the opportunity. IDK people just be nice

LibraNurse27 brings up some good points. I think one thing I did learn in the ER is the ability to value everyone on our team from the techs, paramedics, secretaries, nurses, PAs, physicians, etc. My theory is we are all on the same team no matter what our role is. Yes, as nurses we have different roles and scopes and same as everyone else. The interesting thing about the ER is I have seen our staff come together when needed....when a bariatric patient needed to be lifted, then the staff that was free went to help. In that moment, that happened to be an ER physician, a few nurses, a few techs and paramedics, and a PA. It's really kind of nice when there isn't a hierarchy.

I think part of the reason I say it is important not to talk down or treat nursing students or techs as if they are stupid or unimportant or "less" than a nurse is because they will often adopt this attitude and treat others like this, especially when they become a nurse.

I am incredibly grateful for my experience as a paramedic and then as an ED tech (where we were required to also learn the role as secretary when needed). Why? It made me feel for all roles on my team and truly empathize. I admit that as a tech I tended to help the nurses more that treated me kindly and like I had a brain inside my head - because I did. I accepted my role as a tech and performed that role to the best of my ability, but I admit it was harder to help the nurses who treated me as a lesser form of a human being. The same idea also goes to the nursing instructors who lost grip when I made a a very basic, honest mistake.

I think it all goes back to "Be kind because everyone is going through a journey you know nothing about." Most people are just trying to make it and for the most part are doing the best they can. There are the occasional complainers or lazy ones, but this is not the majority. Treat everyone with respect and they will most likely learn to adopt those traits and treat the next generation of techs or nurses like that (or that is my hope at least!).

[TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN]

3 hours ago, LibraNurse27 said:

In regards to nursing students learning how to do CNA work, I think it's important. If you're expected to delegate tasks to a CNA, you need to know how to do them.

True, that's why almost every nursing student's first semester of clinical is in a nursing home learning at a CNA level.  4 semesters in, all you're accomplishing by making the student change linens is wasting their time that should be spent learning at that higher level (that they're paying for).

[amoLucia]

45 minutes ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

True, that's why almost every nursing student's first semester of clinical is in a nursing home learning at a CNA level. 

No, most prob due to lack of avail clinical sites due to so much competition from the overabundance of nsg programs, all vying for the same clinical sites.

[Jedrnurse, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

True, that's why almost every nursing student's first semester of clinical is in a nursing home learning at a CNA level.  4 semesters in, all you're accomplishing by making the student change linens is wasting their time that should be spent learning at that higher level (that they're paying for).

I'm actually a proponent of making CNA certification be a prerequisite to nursing school.

[Guest856929]

1 hour ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:

True, that's why almost every nursing student's first semester of clinical is in a nursing home learning at a CNA level.  4 semesters in, all you're accomplishing by making the student change linens is wasting their time that should be spent learning at that higher level (that they're paying for).

The schools and teachers who insist on vocational duties have created an epidemic of new graduate nurses who are primarily task-oriented and quite frequently incapable of thinking critically beyond tasks and figures. After the first 2 semesters, emphasis should be on thinking beyond the nose. This is especially true for RN programs. LPN programs can be excused for placing emphasis on tasks. Looking at the pathophysiological state in the patients’ health on the continuum of wellbeing, including, but not limited to figures like labs, V/S et al, then putting together a plan should be the primary point of focus. There’s so much one can improve on the efficiency of bed-making; however, critical thinking is a perennial component of nursing that will invariably have room for improvement.