What if all docs had to nurses first?????

allnurses Guide · Apr 3, 2004

sbic, fergus, kcsun, menetopoli . . .all great points. I don't see the need.

Of course you could turn it around and have nurses do a rotation or two with docs to make them a bit more understanding about where the docs are coming from.

It is a two-way street and there are jerks and wonderful people on both sides.

steph

Editorial Team / Admin · Apr 3, 2004

I also think a rotation shadowing a nurse (2 wk or a month or something) might open a lot of eyes, and contribute towards a more respectful and open communication between the two disciplines. It certainly can't hurt.

Of course, there will always be those residents who will roll their eyes andsimply tolerate the experience, without ANY hoped-for enlightenment taking place (a la, "you can lead an horse to water but you can't make him drink."). Conversely, there would be perverse nurses who would persecute the residents on said rotation and set the stage for ill will and poor communication, setting any advancements in cooperative workplace behaviours back 100 yr . . .

Too much for my little brain . . .

Yes, steph, it IS a 2-way street, as you so aptly posted above!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2004

On top of that your average doctor would be 40 before they "graduated" from their residency. Also, don't forget that many of the "atheist", pinheaded, scientifically orientated docs look down upon much of nursing. If they even touched nursing they would consider themselves unclean!

And what does atheist have to do with looking down on others (or for that matter, scientifically oriented)?

PA-C in Texas · Apr 3, 2004

I think it would be a great idea to require a certain level of direct patient care experience for all medical school applicants. That's what happens for NP and PA school, and people often comment on how they prefer to see mid-levels rather than physicians. However, I don't think nursing is the only option. After all, nursing is not the be-all and end-all of health care (although some people wish it was).

Medical School teaches you how to diagnose and treat disease, but it does NOT teach you how to take care of someone. How many docs do you know that know how to run an infusion pump? Empty a foley bag? Even put down the rails on a bed?

Most of them probably don't need to know such things for their everyday practice, but perhaps if they did have to do such things, they would appreciate those who do it every day.

I try to be very involved with the care of my patients in the ER. When its pretty slow I will start IV's and take blood myself, or administer meds, etc. One reason is that this gives me more time with the patient. Another reason is that it makes the nurses happy and nurses rule my life.

My background has been such a big help because being a paramedic for 5 years really taught me how to relate to patients and how to communicate with them. Even though I have more knowledge now, I interact with my patients in the same way as when I was a medic. I didn't have to learn the ropes of diagnosing/treating and interpersonal skills at the same time like so many PGY 1's do.

Just some thoughts...

RN_Amy, RN · Apr 3, 2004

I think it would be a great idea to require a certain level of direct patient care experience for all medical school applicants. That's what happens for NP and PA school, and people often comment on how they prefer to see mid-levels rather than physicians. However, I don't think nursing is the only option. After all, nursing is not the be-all and end-all of health care (although some people wish it was).
Medical School teaches you how to diagnose and treat disease, but it does NOT teach you how to take care of someone. How many docs do you know that know how to run an infusion pump? Empty a foley bag? Even put down the rails on a bed?

I TOTALLY agree re. nurses thinking nursing is THE be-all and end-all of health care....

In my opinion, I don't think nurses give doctors enough credit... I agree that junior and other doctors (as quoted above) may not know how to do the simplest of patient care tasks... but this is due to the fact they are not nurses or trained as such... they are trained to be doctors... to diagnose and treat illnesses. (Try dealing with consultant anaesthetists or surgeons which I do a day to day basis!).

I think it all comes down to the age old debate - nursing versus medicine. How many ignorant arrogant *****y nurses are out there practicising who think they know more than they do? Just a little food for thought. :)

NursesRmofun, ASN, RN · Apr 3, 2004

I agree that a lot of doctors don't get enough credit....and personally, most of the docs I have worked with in the last decade and a half have been great! Most have been very empathetic to nursing. I would never want the responsibility of being a doc. I can barely stand all the responsibility I have now!

I entirely missed the comments about "...atheist, pinheaded,..." etc., the first time around. I guess I wasn't reading it all the way through. Maybe it was a poor, innocent attempt at being funny.

However, having docs do a nursing rotation is not a bad idea! :)

menetopali · Apr 3, 2004

steph,

i actually think that it would be a positive thing to have nurses shadowing a doc for a brief rotation as well, and for the same reason that i think it would be positive for new docs to do a brief nurse rotation. you're right, it is a two-way street, and both disciplines could use some more exposure to the world of the other. IMHO

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Apr 3, 2004

If all docs had to be nurses first, we wouldnt have any doctors

I agree lol.

beckymcrn · Apr 3, 2004

i have often said it should be a prereq for medical school. then maybe we wouldn't get so many stupid and unreasonable orders!!! if only they could walk a day in our shoes!!!

i absolutely agree!!!!!! :chuckle

fergus51 · Apr 3, 2004

I would imagine a lot of patient care aides and CNAs would say the same thing about nurses.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Apr 3, 2004

I wouldn't say that necessarily. Quite a few nurses i've worked with worked as an aide through college.

NursesRmofun, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2004

I wouldn't say that necessarily. Quite a few nurses i've worked with worked as an aide through college.

Well, not trying to pat my own back, but I did all three...CNA/Tech, LPN and now RN. I think it is good to experience other positions. However, I would make a bad doc, I'm afraid! I better skip any rotations in the Doc's seat! LOL! :uhoh21: