What a coincidence. . .every single student nurse who shadows me. . .

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

Ok, 4years undergrad, 4years med school. Then as a resident you're practicing medicine. I can see the same for 4 years undergrad+ 2-3 years of crna school being enough. Everything u need to know as a crna u would learn before even practicing IMO.

There is MUCH more to learn than just how to give a few medicines to put someone to sleep. Anesthesia residency is AT LEAST 4 years. That is 4 years under grad, 4 years med school, 4 years residency and then for speciality anesthesia like Open heart another 2-3 years fellowship. Slightly more that 4 years under grad and a couple of years with on the job training in school. There are nuances of practicing medicine, whether you are practicing as a nurse or MD, that only HANDS ON experience can give you.....especially a speciality like anesthesia where life and death treads a very thin line.

I think a lot of the problem begins when the newer nurses enter the profession making it very clear they are only biding their time until they can find a way to leave being a nurse. Those of us who are happy at the bedside are annoyed by the insuination that someone "I can't wait to get the real job and money and I'm biding my time to get out of here" is different from hearing "I am fascinated by anesthesia and surgery....I need to learn all I can to make me a better CRNA for when I can go back to school and learn more."

Advanced Practice Nursing degrees are named that because they advance the teachings and learning of being a good nurse.....not something to seep past to get the the big bucks. If I hear a new nurse verbalize a passion and fascination with a desire to learn more I'm all for that......but when I hear "I'm just here to "get the time I need to get out of here to the real stuff/money is" is nails on a chaulk board. Bedside nurses in all specialities save patient's MD's. and NP's all the time by knowing how to care for that patient and knowing how and when to interview when things go wrong at the bedside.

I think it's important to remember that as babies we had to crawl before we walked and we had to walk before we ran. Sure there are a few extraordinary babies that never crawled but that didn't really make them better people when they grew up.

Respect is a two way street......you reap what you sow. Here at AN we.......

promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite. Additionally, please refrain from name-calling. This is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.
Our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. There is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. We will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.
Our call is to be supportive, not divisive.

I am one who believes that advanced nursing degrees should not be direct entry as I still believe you need the basics first....when I graduated BSN was NP and they were saying BSN will be minimal required entry in 4 years.....that was 34 years ago........Time will tell.

We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

I think its perfectly fine for a person wanted to advance and not do bedside for years and years. I also think its ok to want to be a crna or NP and have those goals before even going to nursing school, is that wrong? I know I don't want to do bedside for a long time bc I want to advance, does that make me a potential bad nurse? If they had direct entry into NP or CRNA I would def consider that route, does that make me wrong? I think what's right for one person may not be right for the next and that perfectly ok. Bc as a NP or CRNA you don't do the same things as a nurse so I could see eliminating that requirement of being a nurse first for some ppl.

Right or wrong, having the goal of being a CRNA or an NP before even going to nursing school is putting the cart before the horse. Incurring a lot of debt and going to school for six years or more without any clear idea what the job is like and whether or not you're suited to it seems rather silly to me. You might find out, once you've taken on the debt and did the six year plan, that you absolutely hate anesthesia. Or now that you're an acute care nurse practitioner you really aren't interested in acute care at all. It always makes me laugh when I see posts entitled "Do You Think I Should Be An NP or CRNA?" because it shows me that the poster hasn't really investigated to see what the job is all about and is trusting the opinions of random strangers rather than figuring out where their interest and talents lie.

But putting all that aside, Advance Practice Nursing education was based on the premise that the student already have nursing experience and is able to multi-task, think critically, pick up on subtle cues and participate as a member of the health care team.

Respectfully, if you plan on graduate studies, I hope you make an effort to learn how to write more professionally.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

i don't recall seeing anyone use the word "mean" to describe the behavior that is being discussed here. that is your personal projection. consequently it is often this very same projection that you inject into every conversation that involves young nurses, new nurses, and nursing students. to me it signals a pathological preoccupation - one that renders most of what you post invalid to me because it has become obvious that your comments are driven by this emotional baggage which sometimes interferes with having rational discussions with you.
how's that for a dose of reality?

pathological preoccupation and projection, eh? thank you for your opinion on my psyche.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

After two years of med-surg rotations i dont think i can recall one med-surg nurse talking about how they loved their job and this was the place or area we should aspire to nurse at.

Very sorry to hear this. During my med-surg years, I was one of those people who enjoyed med-surg and (for the most part) enjoyed teaching students who were on rotation with us. I absolutely did not like the ratio of patients to nurse (who the heck does??) but I very much liked the fact that every new shift meant a variety of illnesses, injuries, and post-ops.

I was known to call out "Field Trip!" in the breakroom where the students gathered, if I was going to be transfusing blood, changing a pleurovac, changing a woundvac dressing, whatever. Meant they were going to see something interesting, maybe something they hadn't yet seen/done. Med-surg nurses are like a Jack of All Trades :)

Too bad that was never your experience, truly.

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jul 30, 2012

pathological preoccupation and projection, eh? thank you for your opinion on my psyche.

an seems to be full of people trying to psychoanalyze members of late. just wait for the pm's full of "advice"

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

Ok, 4years undergrad, 4years med school. Then as a resident you're practicing medicine. I can see the same for 4 years undergrad+ 2-3 years of crna school being enough. Everything u need to know as a crna u would learn before even practicing IMO.

OMG, so much knowledge deficit here it's remarkable.

I don't have all the details, I'm sure someone here does, but I believe one must have a couple of years of critical care experience under his/her belt in order to even APPLY to a school to work toward CRNA. And to get to critical care usually requires some acute care time before that, so....3 years or so doesn't seem unreasonable as the time lapse between licensing as an RN and getting a spot in school for CRNA. If that's inaccurate, someone please correct me.

Now why do you think schools who educate RNs to become CRNAs want this experience? Perhaps because they AREN'T going to be teaching you everything you'd need to know, that they expect you to already KNOW what you'd have learned on the critical care unit?

Those of us who practice in the nursing arena know that the idea of "everything you need to know as a CRNA you would learn before even practicing" seems woefully ignorant.

HopefulNurse2011 · Jul 30, 2012

Oh I'm terribly sorry ruby vee, did not know I had to use perfect unabbreviated vocabulary for you. But that was a "cute" yet weak attempt to portray me as someone who isn't "ready" for a masters education bc I'm typing on my phone. Well sweetheart, and yes I use that term in a condescending manner, I have a BA in biology , 2 years of master education, now I'm in my second degree which is nursing with a 3.88 and that's bc I got a silly "A-" and lowered my GPA...but I guess its more appropriate to jugde someones educational competencies based off allnurses lol. Secondly you are the type of nurse new nurses speak about in regards to wanting new nurses not to have goals...I think its absolutley silly that you feel a new nurse shouldn't want to advance their degrees and know that from the start.....silly for us to have goals, what were we thinking. Only a fool would pursue a career they k now nothing about, this is the reason for research, shadowing and speaking to someone in that profession (didn't know someone like me could have crna friends huh lol) you're jugdemental like many others but that's is prfectly fine bc you won't deter me from my goals and the goals of other nurses on this board bc maybe your insecurites prevent your happiness for others to succeed. God forbid I abbreviated or mispelled something on my phone, wouldn't want to be judged. Sheesh .

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

oh i'm terribly sorry ruby vee, did not know i had to use perfect unabbreviated vocabulary for you. but that was a "cute" yet weak attempt to portray me as someone who isn't "ready" for a masters education bc i'm typing on my phone. well sweetheart, and yes i use that term in a condescending manner, i have a ba in biology , 2 years of master education, now i'm in my second degree which is nursing with a 3.88 and that's bc i got a silly "a-" and lowered my gpa...but i guess its more appropriate to jugde someones educational competencies based off allnurses lol. secondly you are the type of nurse new nurses speak about in regards to wanting new nurses not to have goals...i think its absolutley silly that you feel a new nurse shouldn't want to advance their degrees and know that from the start.....silly for us to have goals, what were we thinking. only a fool would pursue a career they k now nothing about, this is the reason for research, shadowing and speaking to someone in that profession (didn't know someone like me could have crna friends huh lol) you're jugdemental like many others but that's is prfectly fine bc you won't deter me from my goals and the goals of other nurses on this board bc maybe your insecurites prevent your happiness for others to succeed. god forbid i abbreviated or mispelled something on my phone, wouldn't want to be judged. sheesh .

speaking of judging . . . .

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jul 30, 2012

Well sweetheart, and yes I use that term in a condescending manner

Says it all right there.

What people are missing in the OP point is they are confusing having goals for being rude. Making plans for the future = fine. Yabbering on about those plans while someone its trying to teach you something you need to know = not fine. You can tell the difference between someone who has ambition and drive because they view every step along the road is importance and those primarily concerned with the end game.

HopefulNurse2011 · Jul 30, 2012

Says it all right there.
What people are missing in the OP point is they are confusing having goals for being rude. Making plans for the future = fine. Yabbering on about those plans while someone its trying to teach you something you need to know = not fine. You can tell the difference between someone who has ambition and drive because they view every step along the road is importance and those primarily concerned with the end game.

Oh i wasn't aware that you were chiming in on the discussion ms ruby and I were having. Maybe you should reread so you can understand why i used that phrase. And i totally agree about new nurses being rude vs having goals. I don't tell anyone my goals in clinicals bc that is my personal information. 1. do not want to judge 2. do not want to be treated differently.

I find it hard to believe (but i do) that some nurses would act that way during a learning opportunity with seasoned nurses, maybe no home training? My goals of advancing does not affect my want/need to learn as a nurse or during clinicals. I understand not being fond of those ppl but sorry i'm not oen of them

Stephalump · Jul 30, 2012

Says it all right there.
.

As does the equally condescending comment that prompted the writer into a tizzy. Which was probably prompted by another condescending comment, which were all prompted by the condescending original post. Let's not cherry pick, here. When you start with negativity and divisiveness, that's where you'll end.

HopefulNurse2011 · Jul 30, 2012

Says it all right there.
What people are missing in the OP point is they are confusing having goals for being rude. Making plans for the future = fine. Yabbering on about those plans while someone its trying to teach you something you need to know = not fine. You can tell the difference between someone who has ambition and drive because they view every step along the road is importance and those primarily concerned with the end game.

I typed a very long response and my computer deleted it......sigh............i typed that for a reason, pls look into it.

and i don't look down on nurses, nor preceptors. my goals of becoming a crna doesn't take away the fact that i want to learn all i can about my job as a nurse.