What a coincidence. . .every single student nurse who shadows me. . .

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jul 30, 2012

Since you want actual data, instead of anecdotes - the only research study done on this subject has found that prior RN experience and NP competency are not related, as measured by physician's and NPs themselves.
Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills? [Nurse Pract. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

That is to be expected since NP and PA programs are similar and if your dedicated enough to get through the program your probably dedicated enough to get the job done right no matter what.

NP is a great way for a nurse to move up into a new role it's not so great when someone sets out to be a NP from the get go since they still have to go through the nursing curriculum If NP and PA's had the same scope of practice which one would you choose to do?

eleectrosaurus · Jul 30, 2012

myelin · Jul 30, 2012

That is to be expected since NP and PA programs are similar and if your dedicated enough to get through the program your probably dedicated enough to get the job done right no matter what.
NP is a great way for a nurse to move up into a new role it's not so great when someone sets out to be a NP from the get go since they still have to go through the nursing curriculum If NP and PA's had the same scope of practice which one would you choose to do?

Exactly. If someone is dedicated enough to becoming a NP that they are willing to drop their lives and study full time for 2-3 years to do so (which most direct entry programs require), well, chances are they're going to get the job done. That's the entire point.

I am not sure what I would have chosen if PAs had the same scope of practice. I chose NP specifically because I wanted psych, and I am planning on practicing in an independent practice state. For my specialty, I don't like the PA training, to be honest. I find it lacking. Their training is purely medical and I honestly don't think PAs get enough training in psych. They don't learn any therapy techniques or take any extra coursework in psych, unlike psych NPs. Also, I'm interested in teaching and research, which lean me towards nursing over PA, as well. Had I wanted emergency medicine or anything surgical, I would have gone PA, no questions.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

oh i wasn't aware that you were chiming in on the discussion ms ruby and i were having. maybe you should reread so you can understand why i used that phrase. and i totally agree about new nurses being rude vs having goals. i don't tell anyone my goals in clinicals bc that is my personal information. 1. do not want to judge 2. do not want to be treated differently.
i find it hard to believe (but i do) that some nurses would act that way during a learning opportunity with seasoned nurses, maybe no home training? my goals of advancing does not affect my want/need to learn as a nurse or during clinicals. i understand not being fond of those ppl but sorry i'm not oen of them

and i wasn't aware that i was having a private conversation -- i thought i was posting on a public forum.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

all i can say is just remember is that we are not always perceived the way we think we are. i'm 100% percent sure your not perceiving me the way i intend i'm definitely not perceiving you the way you think you are coming across.
you don't come across as some one who "doesn't look down on preceptors" not at all.
being humble is the hardest thing in the world and i know i suck at it.

there are those who a perceived as being condescending, rude or otherwise negatively even though that was not their intent. and then there are those who admit they were deliberately condescending. the former are worth understanding better; the latter not.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 31, 2012

I suppose i need to clarify bc i believe i'm giving people the wrong idea. I know EXACTLY what it takes to become a CRNA i have zero problem with doing what it takes. What I am saying is: IF they were a specially designed "new" program for CRNA's in whatever length of time the prgrams dictates then I can see that in addition to the previous route. Not the current programs now, but if they was a new program started solely for that purpose.

Ok.....but this is different than your original post, the one I responded to in which you were saying that four years of college plus 2-3 years of CRNA school should be enough to begin to practice. And, of course, I'd have to disagree (as I said in my post). If you are now suggesting that a new program be devised that could teach you all that you'd need to know in 2-3 years, well, I suppose anything is possible. However, I'd still have serious doubts about the validity /quality of such a program--as I don't believe you could possibly get the assessment skills required IN school the same as actually working in the critical care setting PRIOR to the CRNA school's start (as it's currently done).

I appreciate the clarification, but I'd have to say I just don't see it as viable. Experience, actual hands-on and in the field, is the pre-req for admission to CRNA school now, and I believe it should stay that way.

studentnurse96 · Jul 31, 2012

Congrats!

Thanks! Its been a long road!

SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS · Jul 31, 2012

....
I think a lot of the problem begins when the newer nurses enter the profession making it very clear they are only biding their time until they can find a way to leave being a nurse. Those of us who are happy at the bedside are annoyed by the insuination that someone "I can't wait to get the real job and money and I'm biding my time to get out of here" is different from hearing "I am fascinated by anesthesia and surgery....I need to learn all I can to make me a better CRNA for when I can go back to school and learn more."
...
If I hear a new nurse verbalize a passion and fascination with a desire to learn more I'm all for that......but when I hear "I'm just here to "get the time I need to get out of here to the real stuff/money is" is nails on a chaulk board. Bedside nurses in all specialities save patient's MD's. and NP's all the time by knowing how to care for that patient and knowing how and when to interview when things go wrong at the bedside.
I think it's important to remember that as babies we had to crawl before we walked and we had to walk before we ran. Sure there are a few extraordinary babies that never crawled but that didn't really make them better people when they grew up.
Respect is a two way street......you reap what you sow...
I am one who believes that advanced nursing degrees should not be direct entry as I still believe you need the basics first....when I graduated BSN was NP and they were saying BSN will be minimal required entry in 4 years.....that was 34 years ago........Time will tell.
We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Eloquently said, as always, Esme. Thanks for being a voice of reason.

studentnurse96 · Jul 31, 2012

I must be in the minority group of new grads that WANTS to work med- surg as long as I can to gain as much knowledge as I can before I even consider moving to a higher acuity setting. I wouldn't think of jumping to Biology II before Biology so why rush it? I can't wait to meet with my preceotor and absorb everything she has to say and show me and I am terrified to know that I am only with her for 84 hours. I wish they would change nursing school to include more precepting hours throughout school. I had horrible clinical experiences, not because of the nurses, but because the hospitals didn't want students and therefore I feel undereducated in so many ways. Its not the skills that I am worried about, that comes with practice. Its time management, its prioritizing client care, its knowing what needs to be done and being able to get it all done in my shift without neglecting my patients. When I spoke with my instructor last qtr about all my anxiety she said something that I will never forget. She said " Jessica, the reason I know you will be a great nurse is because you know that you don't know it all and you accept that you have a lot to learn. The ones that we should all be worried about entering nursing at the bedside are your classmates that think they have nothing to learn and that they know it all. They are the ones that will end up killing someone because they won't ask for help." Honestly, I am terrified, but so excited! My family has been through hell for the last 2 years to get me through school, and I'm finally here. I guess I thought I would feel more confident at this point.

kdavispn · Jul 31, 2012

You do seem a little feisty on this issue. No one is saying xyz isn't real nursing what they are saying if you are going to school for nursing you should probably actually want to BE a nurse of some kind as the odds of entering nursing solely to get into an expanded or non nursing role ( I consider NP and CRNA non nursing roles because they are so different than the standard nurse role ) is not in favor of you achieving your role and if people are going to nursing school and then leaving nursing it is a waste of resources. Why not go to PA school instead?

Well, I personally think is just fine to go nursing school with no intention of practicing in a clinical setting.

If that was my choice, I would choose not to go become a PA because nursing gives you more choices.

My cousin was gonna go to PA school after she finished her BSN, but has now enrolled to become a NP.

I did my research, and I advised her to research becoming a PA instead. So, Hmm.

I'm not fiesty about it. I personally would not tell someone they should be a PA or a doctor because they're not interested in practicing as a bed side care nurse.

kdavispn · Jul 31, 2012

The nurses and practitioners in my family have always pushed us to keep moving up the ladder.

If I had the means, I would have gone straight through, but, that's just me.

Its quite educational to see the points of view of my peers. Agree or disagree.

kdavispn · Jul 31, 2012

I totally agree. No matter what your specialty, seems like you can spend your whole life learning about it.