What a coincidence. . .every single student nurse who shadows me. . .

RNBearColumbus, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

I've seen more than a few new grad RNs come into LTC to push a med cart with their wings clipped and their dreams dashed....

Me too. And the funny thing is, they usually end up quitting fairly soon.

Typical quotes:

"25 PATIENTS???? In school they told me I'd only have 4-6!"

"I'm being oriented by an LPN??? But in school they told me i'd be SUPERVISING LPNs!"

"Oh, I'm just here until I hear back on my ICU / NICU / ER / (Insert other "glamorous" specialty here) application. "

"How soon do you think a management job will open up around here? I spent too much time in school to just push pills"

Not that I get a a lot of schadenfreude from it, but it's always amusing to me. Nursing programs need to do a better job of managing expectations and preparing students for the jobs that are actually out there.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Jul 30, 2012

I think there are two factors at play : big money expectations and exciting work. The perception of floor nursing is not as exciting as critical and other units. Students will learn when they are in the workforce what the market has to offer.

As for 2015 - I believe there is an initiative for advanced practice nurses to have doctorates after that date, so many people are trying to squeeze in with masters-prepared programs and hope they get grandfathered in. Not sure if that will work in the long run.

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 30, 2012

I don't mind the students whose career goals are based on some legitimate research and reflection. It's good to have some goals ... and natural and healthy to have some dreams.

The ones that get to me are the ones who say they want a specific role who have no clue as to what that role is or does.

It also helps if the student indicates he/she is open to considering other options. It definitely hurts when the student has a dismissive and disrespectful attitude towards other jobs. ("The one I want is better than YOUR job -- and I am going to be ____ because I am better than you.")

Oh ... and I once interviewed some students from the same school (one at a time, of course) and they all said they wanted to open clinics in 3rd world countries. I figured they must have had some guest speaker or something ... .... or maybe it was a reheorificed answer suggested by someone giving them tips on how to answer common interview questions. I thought it was funny that they all gave the same answer, and I don't think I hired any of them.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

i can think of better things to care about.
but then, i don't criticize my 4 year old for wanting to be an astronaut...or a cowboy...or a rock star either.

and that's pretty much what it is -- students gravitating toward the "glamour" jobs like astronaut or cowboy because they don't really understand what else is out there. it's uninformed at best.

the thing that bothers me about so many of the responses here -- and about students in general -- is how disrespectful they are of the bedside nurse they're shadowing in some area other than the glamourous area they're aspiring to.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

please stop generalizing. most students do not want to be crnas and nps. most of us would be grateful to have any nursing job that comes our way after graduation. yeah there's a few who run their mouths and think they're god's gift to nursing. no need to discorage them, their attitudes won't allow them very far. encourage them in whatever ways you can

us students don't generalize that all veteran bedside nurses are a bunch of crabby, cranky, burnt out old you know whats just because theres a few who actually are (and there are!). i am grateful to the positive, encouraging nurses whom i have encountered and i plan to treat students in this same manner someday
i am nice and respectful to each and every nurse i come into contact with during clinicals. i pick their brain and jump at any opportunity that comes my way. i'm a student, i'm there to learn. but i do recognize my strong points and i am a natural born leader. i hope to one day use that strength in my nursing career even if it means not being a bedside med-surg nurse for my entire career.
i have goals and dreams that i will achieve whether or not the negative nancys think i should.[/quote}
enough students come through who look down on bedside nursing (and let their precpetors know it), and who are convinced that they are destined for "better things" (and let their preceptors know it) that i can see where the generalizations come from.

maybe you personally don't generalize that all veteran bedside nurses are crabby, cranky, burned out old biters, but enough students do that it's become rather an inside joke among us biters.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 30, 2012

what's wrong with that? seriously?? this board is becoming so negative, shame on you nurses for continuously discouraging new grads and students.

and shame on you newbies for continuously attacking veteran nurses for being mean to them and dashing their dreams.

HopefulNurse2011 · Jul 30, 2012

I think its perfectly fine for a person wanted to advance and not do bedside for years and years. I also think its ok to want to be a crna or NP and have those goals before even going to nursing school, is that wrong? I know I don't want to do bedside for a long time bc I want to advance, does that make me a potential bad nurse? If they had direct entry into NP or CRNA I would def consider that route, does that make me wrong? I think what's right for one person may not be right for the next and that perfectly ok. Bc as a NP or CRNA you don't do the same things as a nurse so I could see eliminating that requirement of being a nurse first for some ppl.

ckh23, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

I think its perfectly fine for a person wanted to advance and not do bedside for years and years. I also think its ok to want to be a crna or NP and have those goals before even going to nursing school, is that wrong? I know I don't want to do bedside for a long time bc I want to advance, does that make me a potential bad nurse? If they had direct entry into NP or CRNA I would def consider that route, does that make me wrong? I think what's right for one person may not be right for the next and that perfectly ok. Bc as a NP or CRNA you don't do the same things as a nurse so I could see eliminating that requirement of being a nurse first for some ppl.

And here is the problem. Nursing experience allows nurses to be in that advanced practice role. The nursing experience will help to become a better practitioner by being able to pick up on subtle things that you can only get with experience at the bedside. Why do you think they don't just let med students start practicing when they are done med school?

There is a reason the advanced degrees do not have a direct entry pathway, and for good reason. You can only learn so much from books. You are right that NP's and CRNA's don't do the same thing as nurses, that's because they do more and it comes from a foundation built on education AND experience.

Orca, ADN, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

Nursing school only gives you a very basic framework to prepare you for what lies ahead. While higher aspirations are fine, believing that you are ready for advanced practice after a year or two as a nurse is folly, IMO. That doesn't give you enough of a background in the profession. I can also see why veteran nurses get a bit chapped when students who don't even have a license yet are already talking about advanced degrees. It implies that what the line nurse is doing is beneath them - or at least they want it to be. Walk a mile in my shoes first. Maybe two.

metal_m0nk, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2012

and shame on you newbies for continuously attacking veteran nurses for being mean to them and dashing their dreams.

i don't recall seeing anyone use the word "mean" to describe the behavior that is being discussed here. that is your personal projection. consequently it is often this very same projection that you inject into every conversation that involves young nurses, new nurses, and nursing students. to me it signals a pathological preoccupation - one that renders most of what you post invalid to me because it has become obvious that your comments are driven by this emotional baggage which sometimes interferes with having rational discussions with you.

how's that for a dose of reality?

Stephalump · Jul 30, 2012

Nursing school only gives you a very basic framework to prepare you for what lies ahead. While higher aspirations are fine, believing that you are ready for advanced practice after a year or two as a nurse is folly, IMO. That doesn't give you enough of a background in the profession. I can also see why veteran nurses get a bit chapped when students who don't even have a license yet are already talking about advanced degrees. It implies that what the line nurse is doing is beneath them - or at least they want it to be. Walk a mile in my shoes first. Maybe two.

I disagree that it implies that that type of work is "beneath them." If a preceptor walks away having read that deeply into a simple statement of desire, I'm sorry, but there's some personal insecurity going on there that isn't the student's problem. NPs and CRNAs have a completely different scope of practice. One is not lesser or greater than the other.

I'm sure some people do think being an RN is beneath them, but it would be far more apparent in other ways than just end goals.

We're all human, we're all going to judge, generalize, and project, but I'd hope we can recognize some of it and examine it as such. /soapbox

HopefulNurse2011 · Jul 30, 2012

Ok, 4years undergrad, 4years med school. Then as a resident you're practicing medicine. I can see the same for 4 years undergrad+ 2-3 years of crna school being enough. Everything u need to know as a crna u would learn before even practicing IMO.