I just graduated with my BSN this spring. I'm working as a PCA2/Graduate Nurse at a local hospital until I take my boards... I am taking my HESI tomorrow at the college I graduated from. This is an 'exit' type of exam that we have to pass before taking our boards. I'm feeling down about not being able to pass and have this huge fear that I am not going to pass my boards!
Amidst my fear, I am questioning taking a role as an RN on floor nursing. It seems like most of the RN's on my floor have an associates degree, and I am questioning if I should be doing something different since I have my bachelor's? The pay is the same for an Assoc. or BSN, which doesn't make any sense to me. Just wondering what else is available that I might not be looking for, or what your opinions are!?
Another BSN student who just graduated as well was speaking with me, and said she wonders if the Assoc. degree RN's laugh thinking that we have wasted our time getting our BSN when we get the same pay/same responsibilities. Is this a big issue?
a bsn means bachelors of science in nursing ...so yes, i would prefer courses to be oriented to that topic. furthermore, any sort of learning (not ltd to college) should be encouraged and embraced. but if i were to use the same rationales as you, i could say just as easily that it's perfectly ok for my son to play his video games all day for he is mastering eye and hand coordination, learning to strategize and utilizing his math skills. gen'l education is perfect for becoming well rounded but again, i think a bsn should be focused on nsg., for the specialty that it is. and even then, learning in this profession, is lifelong.
leslie
Of course a BSN program is and should be focused on nursing; afterall it is a major. There are so many nursing credits that are awarded in a BSN program; other credits that are mandated via the university that the nursing school is affiliated with are and should be incorporated into that in order for the university to grant the degree. But I thought you were a proponent of having strictly nursing courses by the nursing department because all other general eds are futile. I disagree, they are not futile. They are valuable and needed. The subjects themselves many people may find "useless" but the skills you learn from them are not. This is what I believe.
As to the parallel you drew with the video games, etc. I don't see the parallel and don't find that to be the same logic I used. Sitting unsupervised and doing repetitive skills and therefore getting better at it as a result is just a tad different than the more higher level skills I was referring to - and I think you know this.
Again, I was responding to the notion that people think these courses don't apply to nursing; I believe they do.
As to the parallel you drew with the video games, etc. I don't see the parallel and don't find that to be the same logic I used. Sitting unsupervised and doing repetitive skills and therefore getting better at it as a result is just a tad different than the more higher level skills I was referring to - and I think you know this.
hey susy,
that's absolutely fine if we disagree, which btw, we do. there's definitely a parallel; as for sitting unsupervised, you would be unsupervised if you were taking an online course; also beyond the repetitive motor skills, strategizing and math are utilizing your mental skills and acuity. sorry, but it's all gen'l ed and that's what it's all about. what if i said my son played chess? just because it's not on the college curriculum, it's not a learning experience. i don't know what makes computers or shakespeare and its' ultimate skills acquired, differs from those i mentioned. and for that matter, people skills, qd experiences, are all gen'l ed if you have your eyes and ears open. the only difference being are the credits you pay for and receive towards your degree.
As to the parallel you drew with the video games, etc. I don't see the parallel and don't find that to be the same logic I used. Sitting unsupervised and doing repetitive skills and therefore getting better at it as a result is just a tad different than the more higher level skills I was referring to - and I think you know this.
hey susy,
that's absolutely fine if we disagree, which btw, we do. there's definitely a parallel. as for sitting unsupervised, you would be unsupervised if you were taking an online course; also beyond the repetitive motor skills, strategizing and math are utilizing your mental skills and acuity. sorry, but it's all gen'l ed and that's what it's all about. what if i said my son played chess? just because it's not on the college curriculum, it's not a learning experience? i don't know what makes computers or shakespeare and its' ultimate skills acquired, different from those i mentioned. and for that matter, people skills, qd experiences, are all gen'l ed if you have your eyes and ears open. the only difference being are the credits you pay for and receive towards your degree.
Yeah, we definitely disagree. I can't draw any comparisons or parallels to an adult taking a college course and a kid playing video games. Just can't. In fact, I can definitely say that college courses don't have a correlation to violence (as video games do!)
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I have said this before. Why is it, a say, BA coupled with an ADN not good enough? Why must it be BSN only? If education ( and well roundedness) is soooo valuable to the profession, then let us recognize the value of an ADN coupled with a prior or new baccalaureate degree, or higher, and quit making it all about BSN! I would LOVE to study another major, say in foreign languages, majoring and minoring in them. I find returning for RN-BSN soooo unsatisfying and would MUCH rather do that. But no, they want us to have BSN only to advance in nursing. How short sighted is that? I think an ADN provides the whole "base" we need to be registered nurses, and would think coupling it with a degree of another discipline more than valuable. Anyone else?
this serves to distinguish the professions from the mechanical arts
where in some instances the knowledge is of a fairly advanced type, but
not in a field of science or learning.
(d) the requisite knowledge, in the third place, must be customarily
acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction
and study. here it should be noted that the word ``customarily'' has
been used to meet a specific problem occurring in many industries. as is
well known, even in the classical profession of law, there are still a
few practitioners who have gained their knowledge by home study and
experience. characteristically, the members of the profession are
graduates of law schools, but some few of their fellow professionals
whose status is equal to theirs, whose attainments are the same, and
whose word is the same did not enjoy that opportunity. such persons are
not barred from the exemption. the word ``customarily'' implies that in
the vast majority of cases the specific academic training is a
prerequisite for entrance into the profession. it makes the exemption
available to the occasional lawyer who has not gone to law school, or
the occasional chemist who is not the possessor of a degree in
chemistry, etc., but it does not include the members of such quasi-
professions as journalism in which the bulk of the employees have
acquired their skill by experience rather than by any formal specialized
training. it should be noted also that many employees in these quasi-
professions may qualify for exemption under other sections of the
regulations in subpart a of this part or under the alternative paragraph
of the ``professional'' definition applicable to the artistic fields.
(e)(1) generally speaking the professions which meet the requirement
for a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study
include law, medicine, nursing, accounting, actuarial computation,
engineering, architecture, teaching, various types of physical,
chemical, and biological sciences, including pharmacy and registered or
certified medical technology and so forth. the typical symbol of the
professional training and the best prima facie evidence of its
possession is, of course, the appropriate academic degree, and in these
professions an advanced academic degree is a standard (if not universal)
prequisite. in the case of registered (or certified) medical
technologists, successful completion of 3 academic years of
preprofessional study in an accredited college or university plus a
fourth year of professional course work in a school of medical
technology approved by the council of medical education of the american
medical association will be recognized as a prolonged course of
specialized intellectual instruction and study. registered nurses have
traditionally been recognized as professional employees by the division
in its enforcement of the act. although, in some cases, the course of
study has become shortened (but more concentrated), nurses who are
registered by the appropriate state examining board will continue to be
recognized as having met the requirement of sec. 541.3(a)(1) of the
regulations.
(2) the areas in which professional exemptions may be available are
expanding. as knowledge is developed, academic training is broadened,
degrees are offered in new and diverse fields, specialties are created
and the true specialist, so trained, who is given new and greater
responsibilities, comes closer to meeting the tests. however, just as an
excellent legal stenographer is not a lawyer, these technical
specialists must be more than highly skilled technicians. many employees
in industry rise to executive or administrative positions by their
natural ability and good commonsense, combined with long experience with
a company, without the aid of a college education or degree in any area.
a college education would perhaps give an executive or administrator a
more cultured and polished approach but the necessary know-how for doing
the executive job would depend upon the person's own inherent talent.
the professional person, on the other hand, attains his status after a
prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study.
(f) many accountants are exempt as professional employees
(regardless of whether they are employed by public accounting firms or
by other types of enterprises). (some accountants may qualify for
exemption as bona fide administrative employees.) however, exemption of
accountants, as in the case of other occupational groups (see
sec. 541.308), must be determined on the basis of the individual
employee's duties and the other criteria in the regulations. it has been
the divisions' experience that certified public accountants who meet the
salary requirement of the regulations will, except in unusual cases,
meet the requirements of the professional exemption since they meet the
tests contained in sec. 541.3. similarly, accountants who are not
certified public accountants may also be exempt as professional
employees if they actually perform work which requires the consistent
exercise of discretion and judgment and otherwise meet the tests
prescribed in the definition of ``professional'' employee. accounting
clerks, junior accountants, and other accountants, on the other hand,
normally perform a great deal of routine work which is not an essential
part of and necessarily incident to any professional work which they may
do. where these facts are found such accountants are not exempt. the
title ``junior accountant,'' however, is not determinative of failure to
qualify for exemption any more than the title ``senior accountant''
would necessarily imply that the employee is exempt....
[38 fr 11390, may 7, 1973. redesignated and amended at 57 fr 46744, oct.
9, 1992.]
------------
why is it, a say, ba coupled with an adn not good enough?
definition of a professional includes: learning customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study.
few adn programs include education and clinical training in public health or home health nursing, leadership/management and administration, and research.
it is intended that graduates with a bs major in nursing will have a sound educational basis for beginning professional practice, for continuing development, for graduate study in nursing, and for accepting professional and civic responsibilities. the addition of the above courses helps to round out professional nursing practice--areas not covered in a ba program.
There is no possible way to say, "Let me know your education level and I'll explain it to you..." without offending.
I definitely would not say it like that! So this is why some of you are so incensed by this point. You have not been taught how to do it! Now, it's clear to me! Looks like more education in how to do history taking is in order here! You are making my point for me...more education is needed.
It's clear you do not want my learned opinion so please consult nursing assessment books and search the web for this information. As I said before, patients have died due to faulty patient teaching. Patients appreciate an extensive history and physical. I heard a physician last night say that history taking is an art and few physicians know how to do it anymore. A very extensive history can reap benefits and save time and money and improve patient outcome.
Hopefully, it's clear by now that you don't want to suggest to AD nurses that they aren't "real" nurses--goes double for LPN's, by the way. But education is never wasted.
No, they are nurses by vertue of licensure. I'm just arguing for one entry level. If you want it to be the ADN, that is fine. At the same time, however, you must make sure that your kids teachers just have a minimum of 2 years to teach. If you do that, considering that health care is more complex and more life and death decisions lie in your hands, then I'll go along with you! I really do not see where there is a real decision to make!
I have said this before. Why is it, a say, BA coupled with an ADN not good enough? Why must it be BSN only?
For the record, I'm personally not that bent on a BSN. I'm all for ANY 4 year degree for nurses. But since the BSN is a bachelor's degree with a major in nursing, which is the profession we are talking about, most discussions will default to that.
Surely you don't need computer programming for nursing to learn "think logically, anticipate programs, cause & effect"....maybe you do but a lot of us don't.
Classical literature to read/analyze info, interpret subtlies, articulate & defend views to a public audience. ??? Whatever....whatever it takes for you.
I guess you do not realize the value of education. Hope your children do not pick up this attitude.
Look, we're all pleased as punch you have your BSN degree. What puts me off is those who think this is the only way to go and any other way you don't learn enough, you're not a professional, think less of those with ASN and diploma schooled....and I could go on and on as well.
The BSN should be the only way for the reasons I spoken of. ADNs do not learn as much in a 2 yr program as in a 4 year program...you can't argue that fact! Those of us with more education do not think less of you as a person...why do so many diploma and ADN grads think this?
thank you, thank you and thank you. someone who gets it...
Just as I told nursemike...since you don't believe me go take a nursing assessment course, surf the web or look in a nursing assessment and history taking book. Then let me see you back track!
a bsn means bachelors of science in nursing ...so yes, i would prefer courses to be oriented to that topic. furthermore, any sort of learning (not ltd to college) should be encouraged and embraced. but if i were to use the same rationales as you, i could say just as easily that it's perfectly ok for my son to play his video games all day for he is mastering eye and hand coordination, learning to strategize and utilizing his math skills. gen'l education is perfect for becoming well rounded but again, i think a bsn should be focused on nsg., for the specialty that it is. and even then, learning in this profession, is lifelong.
leslie
A 4 year degree is considered the basic degree and includes gen ed subjects, just as in all 4 yr degree programs. It makes for a well-rounded person. The BSN is not a "specialist" degree; that's where the masters degree comes in.
You son can benefit from video games...even the military uses them for training. He just should not spend all day on them! All learning is lifelong; we still need to start everyone off at the same level. The profession is messed up enough.
Q.
2,259 Posts
Of course a BSN program is and should be focused on nursing; afterall it is a major. There are so many nursing credits that are awarded in a BSN program; other credits that are mandated via the university that the nursing school is affiliated with are and should be incorporated into that in order for the university to grant the degree. But I thought you were a proponent of having strictly nursing courses by the nursing department because all other general eds are futile. I disagree, they are not futile. They are valuable and needed. The subjects themselves many people may find "useless" but the skills you learn from them are not. This is what I believe.
As to the parallel you drew with the video games, etc. I don't see the parallel and don't find that to be the same logic I used. Sitting unsupervised and doing repetitive skills and therefore getting better at it as a result is just a tad different than the more higher level skills I was referring to - and I think you know this.
Again, I was responding to the notion that people think these courses don't apply to nursing; I believe they do.