What can I do with my BSN that Assoc. RN's can't?

suzy253, RN · Jul 17, 2004

In my humble opinion, if an ADN nursing student sits down to take the NCLEX-RN exam next to a BSN student, and is fully qualified to pass the exam and be recognized and certified by the state, then they should be recognized for that knowledge base. Think about it. What is the real major difference between the two degrees. In MI at the school I'm at, the BSN degree has a few more core classes, but mostly it's 40 credits of gen ed's. I'm sorry, but when is the last time you saw a nurse reciting Shakespeare as he/she was suctioning? My point... a nurse is a nurse is a nurse.
~Brightest Blessings~
HisHands

too true! :)

leslie :-D · Jul 17, 2004

Huh! You say the education level is on the assessment form, yet I find it therapeutic to degrade my patient by asking their educational level? Do you realize that something is wrong with the statement you made? If the question is on the form, are you asking the patient or not? Whoever put it on the form must have thought that it was important. My intelligence includes a lot of common sense. I have seen too many patients die or wind up in ICU because they did not understand how to take their medication, for example. I never degrade a patient because I am very familar with therapeutic communication. Yes, I'm educated and I know a hell of a lot. That's why I will continue to assessment patients properly. This type of statement is exactly why I think it is imperative that 4 years of education be the entry level. You have just proved my points better than anyone else!
ZENMAN , w/all due respect, you're just not getting it. let me try to make you understand. when someone is collecting various information on admission, it is NOT the same as asking your pt. their educational level before you decide on how you're going to teach them. if you cannot see the difference, then all the degrees in the world just can't teach you some things. you also can be proficient in your discharge teaching yet many pts. return to the hospitals secondary to noncompliance, and seldom it's because of not understanding their instructions. it is typically a host of other etiologies.
if you are indeed familiar w/therapeutic communication, it would behoove you to exercise it on this board, rather than attempting to belittle your colleagues with your very weak references, your innuendos and LOL emoticons. furthermore, your 1-15 list was bogus and nonverifiable. very suspect.
and lastly , it is not defensiveness but impatience that i choose to sever communication in this thread w/you. you have definitely proven that if you are degreed, then there are certain elements of human interaction and intelligence that cannot be taught. (posted erroneously, my part of post ends here. leslie)
You are using defense mechanisms. I hope you realize that. This is not about attacking anyone. You make of it what you wish. I'll tell you what though. I used to do consulting for a group of malpractice lawyers...making sure that they were going after the right person. I was able to get them off a lot of nurses and onto some other person. However, I can tell you that if they had you on the stand, you would be ripped to shreds if your patient was injured or died because you thought it degrading to ask their educational level (among other things) prior to planning. You better listen and you better wise up really quick, not only for yourself but for your patients. They deserve it!

funny, i've given depositions, been on trials and had a few trial attorneys suggest i pursue law school. and no one ever asked me my educational level but rather my licensure. look at the astronomical rate of nosocomial, PREVENTABLE infections, with much of the rate attributed to md's not acknowledging the urgency of handwashing. we all know that.

i've met many people in my life who were total idiots or totally inspirational. degrees or lack thereof had little to do with it.

bottom line, bsns are certainly a noble way to go but unless you're pursuing managerial, at this time it is not mandatory,nor is a reflection of any nurse's capabilities. your preaching and antagonizing hasn't convinced me one iota...i think we need to work on your therapeutic communication.

Q. · Jul 17, 2004

In my humble opinion, if an ADN nursing student sits down to take the NCLEX-RN exam next to a BSN student, and is fully qualified to pass the exam and be recognized and certified by the state, then they should be recognized for that knowledge base. Think about it. What is the real major difference between the two degrees. In MI at the school I'm at, the BSN degree has a few more core classes, but mostly it's 40 credits of gen ed's. I'm sorry, but when is the last time you saw a nurse reciting Shakespeare as he/she was suctioning? My point... a nurse is a nurse is a nurse.
~Brightest Blessings~
HisHands

My opinion: people use the NCLEX as the be-all-end-all of a nurse. NCLEX is a standardized test (which many nursing schools prepare you for - ie: teaching to the test) and represents novice safe practice. The NCLEX is the bare-minimum needed to practice. I certainly don't hold it up as any sort of benchmark.

Secondly, from an educator's point of view, a bachelor's degree is much more than reciting Shakespeare for heaven's sake. And I fully disagree that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Just like a cardiologist is not an obstetrician is not a radiologist. Why do we generalize nurses but not physicians?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2004

My opinion: people use the NCLEX as the be-all-end-all of a nurse. NCLEX is a standardized test (which many nursing schools prepare you for - ie: teaching to the test) and represents novice safe practice. The NCLEX is the bare-minimum needed to practice. I certainly don't hold it up as any sort of benchmark.
Secondly, from an educator's point of view, a bachelor's degree is much more than reciting Shakespeare for heaven's sake. And I fully disagree that a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Just like a cardiologist is not an obstetrician is not a radiologist. Why do we generalize nurses but not physicians?

Good point. What's interesting is that to be an MD they all have to have the same education. To be an RN you don't. Nursing is unlike medicine and other "professions" in that respect.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2004

Originally Posted by HisHands

In my humble opinion, if an ADN nursing student sits down to take the NCLEX-RN exam next to a BSN student, and is fully qualified to pass the exam and be recognized and certified by the state, then they should be recognized for that knowledge base. Think about it. What is the real major difference between the two degrees. In MI at the school I'm at, the BSN degree has a few more core classes, but mostly it's 40 credits of gen ed's. I'm sorry, but when is the last time you saw a nurse reciting Shakespeare as he/she was suctioning? My point... a nurse is a nurse is a nurse.

~Brightest Blessings~

HisHands

Rats, I should have gone to the schools where you are. The RN to BSN program I've been accepted to is nothing but two years of nursing courses I didn't get in my ADN program. Some of course are more in detail like a whole semester of assessment, and physiology. And a whole course on family nursing and one on cultural nursing, stuff that was only touched on in my ADN program. But they all are nursing courses, not general ed courses.

Is it going to make me a better nurse at the bedside? I hope so.

leslie :-D · Jul 18, 2004

if one is pursuing a bsn, i would certainly hope that it IS all nursing courses, and not gen'l ed., as then it would be rather futile. and righto tweety, you would certainly hope that all those add'l nsg courses would make one a better nurse. no disputing that. but to be an outstanding nurse, we just can't focus on the science of nsg. but the art and science. there are many nurses that have the both down pat, w/o their bsn's. they click w/their patients, they further their knowledge base at home, they aspire and take pride in being damn good at what they do.

so although ideally it would be wonderful to unify nursing entrance requirements with a minimum of a bsn, it still could never take away from all the adn nurses that have been tops in their field, which also included bsns. so i just won't automatically profess that bsns are better nurses than adns. but it does help one in furthering their career, giving them more options.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 18, 2004

if one is pursuing a bsn, i would certainly hope that it IS all nursing courses, and not gen'l ed., as then it would be rather futile. and righto tweety, you would certainly hope that all those add'l nsg courses would make one a better nurse. no disputing that. but to be an outstanding nurse, we just can't focus on the science of nsg. but the art and science. there are many nurses that have the both down pat, w/o their bsn's. they click w/their patients, they further their knowledge base at home, they aspire and take pride in being damn good at what they do.
so although ideally it would be wonderful to unify nursing entrance requirements with a minimum of a bsn, it still could never take away from all the adn nurses that have been tops in their field, which also included bsns. so i just won't automatically profess that bsns are better nurses than adns. but it does help one in furthering their career, giving them more options.

I have to agree with you. BSNs are not better nurses by virtue of the fact they have a BSN. I was taking exception to the statement the only difference between a BSN and an ADN were a few general ed courses. I work with a few BSN graduates that are very disappointing in comparison to some of us ADNs, and visa versa. One can't generalize, which is why I tend to stay out of the are BSNs better nurses than ADNs. The answer in my experience is no, a bad nurse is a bad nurse regardless of the letters behind his name.

In my experience, in looking at the RN to BSN program, I can only become a better nurse personally with more education. But is it going to give me the art of compassion, empathy and understanding? Is it going to enhance my critical thinking. No.

Personally, I don't have the confidence I'll ever get my BSN because I'm not sure I want to work that hard to get it. But I do however support that the BSN should be the minimum standard for the RN, that they should take a different NCLEX than the ADNs. But how to make that happen, and can it or will it happen, I don't have any answers.

UCLARN · Jul 18, 2004

All nurses ARE professionals. But apparently others do not think that way. I don't know if it partly due to having three roads in which to become a nurse or not having a BSN as the entry level.

Why do we have to be on par with other professions? Nursing is its own profession. I don't see the need to be part of the stereotypical ideal of what a professional "is". All nurses are professionals. Period.
...Jennifer...

UCLARN · Jul 18, 2004

You probably did have that in your diploma program. Since the diploma program is 3 years in length, I'd like to assume that they didn't go into extreme detail. Each of those courses listed are one semester at least in the BSN program.

I have all of the above in my diploma program.

UCLARN · Jul 18, 2004

WHen the original poster wrote this, I don't think it was his intention to ask about each and every clients schooling level. When he said "education level" I think he meant that to mean health educational level. Now seriously, you didn't think that he asked people "Do you have a bachelor's?" All of us assess our patient's health educational level and needs. Now c'mon... dig a little deeper and see what his statements really mean.

education level is on the assessment form, yet if you find it therapeutic to degrade your patient by asking his educational level before you decide on what and how to teach, then all the college degrees in the world cannot teach you certain elements of intelligence.
and reread my post. i never asked you if teaching was important. i was incredulous that you would ask your patients' their educational level before teaching them. you do collect all pertinent info on admission but you DON'T belittle your patient by questioning their academic abilities before deciding on your approach to teaching. just your daily interaction and 1:1 with them should lead you in the right direction.
furthermore one can possess a wealth of knowledge and degrees, but still lack 'intelligence'. i am very supportive of all who want to better themselves....but i do not respond well to condescending attitudes very well.
please, save it for those that give a damn.

leslie :-D · Jul 18, 2004

WHen the original poster wrote this, I don't think it was his intention to ask about each and every clients schooling level. When he said "education level" I think he meant that to mean health educational level. Now seriously, you didn't think that he asked people "Do you have a bachelor's?" All of us assess our patient's health educational level and needs. Now c'mon... dig a little deeper and see what his statements really mean.

please reread all the posts before citing your observations. thanks.

zenman · Jul 18, 2004

I had zero interest in joining this fray, but this particular assertion stuck out at me. So I ran it by a judge that I know. She assures me that in her courtroom, once it had been established that an RN defendant held valid licensure, any line of questioning regarding how the RN became licensed vs. how other nurses become licensed would be quickly squashed, because the defendant had been licensed by the state in accordance with policies established by the state. She tells me that medical malpractice cases tend to hinge on specific actions undertaken by defendants, whether or not defendants were licensed or certified to complete the tasks in question (scope of practice), and whether or not defendants followed their institution's policies and procedures.

"In her courtroom" is the key words here. Expert witness are even questioned as to their background/experience, etc. so in another courtroom things might be different. A license means that you have passed minimum standards and are safe too practice in a certain state. If an ADN grad harmed a patient by doing something that was not covered in their curriculum, a jury is going to feel for the injured patient. Better to be safe.