Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

jive turkey · Sep 2, 2021

9 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

Your initial question was: “what is a valid reason for someone who had covid to decline vaccination?”

After 65+ pages of back & forth, you have not answered that yourself

I ignored the majority of your reply and here's why. The portion I quoted you on is so off base, respectfully, I can't take you serious. I didn't ask a question in the original post. Here's what it said:

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it, or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.

After that I shared what my concerns where, and shared 2 articles that spoke to those concerns.

Later I told people what I personally considered a valid reason. I don't expect what is valid to me, be valid to you

I didn't ask "what's a valid reason"

emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Sep 2, 2021

5 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I ignored the majority of your reply and here's why. The portion I quoted you on is so off base, respectfully, I can't take you serious. I didn't ask a question in the original post. Here's what it said:

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it, or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.

After that I shared what my concerns where, and shared 2 articles that spoke to those concerns.

Later I told people what I personally considered a valid reason. I don't expect what is valid to me, be valid to you

I didn't ask "what's a valid reason"

The title of the thread is “Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated”. Ergo you are posing a question.

jive turkey · Sep 2, 2021

11 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

Sometimes they seem to be...

Again, your entire response is about you. You keep kicking the can down the road to someone else; why don't you clearly state right here right now that if you are not antibody positive you should get vaccinated?

Plus I thought using "BULL" was inflammatory language.

That's where you're wrong. I told you all the number of people who share my concerns. That makes it apparent it's not just about me. You just said you gave exemptions to 2 health care workers. Not just me. You agree a blanket mandate shouldn't apply. Not just me.

I did not and would not ask your personal medical history be discussed here. If you want to share, cool. I don't. Give the same respect.

This discussion for me is about all of us Boston.

Fair enough I won't say bull to you if it comes off that way.

jive turkey · Sep 2, 2021

7 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

The title of the thread is “Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated”. Ergo you are posing a question.

The title invited sharing information and perspectives in support or against not vaccinating. It was not me asking somebody to give me reasons not to. Slight difference.

Secondly, I offered what I considered valid reasons. People disagree. That's OK.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Sep 2, 2021

35 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

Purveyors of alternative facts & misinformation perhaps?

And there is plenty of that. But my question was who is to blame for the mistrust of the medical community. If the medical community appears in lock step with the government who is clearly politicising the pandemic, instituting lock downs, destroying the economy, and appears to many to be taking advantage of the situation for political power (and they do appear that way), those who mistrust the government will mistrust the medical community.

Those in the medical community who dismiss valid concerns (such as auto immune response, bells palsy, and endocarditis), who claim masks are protective (they aren't. They simply limit how far a cough can travel, they clearly do not stop aerosals in or out), and limit any discussion to what government agency talking points say, THOSE people are driving the hesitant to look for someone who takes them seriously. Unfortunately it is the grifters like Alex jones.

I'm hesitant but I'll likely be taking the vaccine in about a month (and I'll probably only take one shot as I do not trust this vaccine. I don't like making my cells the target of my own immune system). Had to dig and convince myself in spite of the horribly dismissive tone I constantly hear. The average lay person will not dig. They will make a decision based on who they think is on their side. We MUST stop this dismissive attitude.

toomuchbaloney · Sep 2, 2021

4 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

If the medical community appears in lock step with the government who is clearly politicising the pandemic, instituting lock downs, destroying the economy, and appears to many to be taking advantage of the situation for political power (and they do appear that way), those who mistrust the government will mistrust the medIcal community.

The Biden administration did not politicize the pandemic. The Biden administration has ordered no lock downs. The virus and the subsequent illness and death are harming the economy. Your fears about political power grands are noted but not evidenced.

7 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Those in the medical community who dismiss valid concerns (such as auto immune response, bells palsy, and endocarditis), who claim masks are protective (they aren't. They simply limit how far a cough can travel, they clearly do not stop aerosals in or out), and limit any discussion to what government agency talking points say, THOSE people are driving the hesitant to look for someone who takes them seriously. Unfortunately it is the grifters like Alex jones.

No the medical community didn't dismiss those things, but tippy apparently feel like they did. Masks are protective and the fact that you mention this belief is evidence of the politicization that occurred because of Trump...remember?

The people who are victim to grifters like Alex Jones are social conservatives. Trump is a big fan of Jones.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Sep 2, 2021

19 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Masks are protective and the fact that you mention this belief is evidence of the politicization that occurred because of Trump...remember?

Only against droplet. Not aerosols. This is incredibly obvious. You've worn a surgical mask. You'll notice it's not sealed. Aerosols take the path of least resistance. That would be the sides, out and in. To say they are protective would suggest covid is only transmitted via droplet. This is not certain (and IMO, not likely). Heres a study highlighting the issue:

"Researchers have speculated that both droplets and aerosols generated from non-violent and violent expirations of SARS-CoV-2-infected people may be responsible for the airborne transmission of COVID-19 disease."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/#!po=59.2697

Look at figure 9 just above the conclusion section.

There is controversy about this issue. "The case studies found worldwide indicate that the behavior of the SARS-CoV-2 virus has been unprecedentedly unique with more survival and viable rates in the air and believed to linger in the air for an extended period."

I'm of the opinion aerosols play a significant role. Are you going to say my opinion is conspiracy?

I don't need a study to demonstrate surgical masks do not stop aerosols. In or out. I've experienced it. Next time you put on an n95, tell me if you can smell the etoh rub. I can and the rep that did my fit test told me that's fine. OK... That means alcohol particles can penetrate the n95. Are etoh aerosols bigger or smaller than respiratory aerosols? I'm not sure. But in any case, a surgical mask doesn't stop them. That is obvious.

allnurses Guide · Sep 2, 2021

59 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That's where you're wrong. I told you all the number of people who share my concerns. That makes it apparent it's not just about me. You just said you gave exemptions to 2 health care workers. Not just me. You agree a blanket mandate shouldn't apply. Not just me.

I did not and would not ask your personal medical history be discussed here. If you want to share, cool. I don't. Give the same respect.

This discussion for me is about all of us Boston.

Fair enough I won't say bull to you if it comes off that way.

I said "BS" once and you said it was inflammatory language and hurt your feelings. Don't you find it a bit hypocritical to say "BULL" less than a day afterwards?

It's clear your personal situation; you are quite literally fixated on it in multiple threads.

You didn't take the opportunity to "clearly state right here right now that if you are not antibody positive you should get vaccinated". I wanted to make sure that wasn't an unintentional omission; so here is a second chance to state it.

If it's about all of us, share some valid reasons not to be vaccinated if you have no immunity.

allnurses Guide · Sep 2, 2021

12 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Only against droplet.

But the primary form of covid spread is droplet.

MunoRN, RN · Sep 2, 2021

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

In verbatim I said:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected

having concerns is not the same as making a suggestion.

If you need further clarification I'll be glad to provide it.

Absolutely, along with a government and CDC that goes back and forth with their information and instructions coupled with mandating a new drug. Add the hard core pro vaxxers being pushy about it

There's no one side at fault.

You're saying you suggested vaccination may not be beneficial for those previously infected, but then also saying you didn't suggest that?

Quote

sug·ges·tion

/sə(ɡ)ˈjesCH(ə)n/

noun

an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The CDC has never "gone back and forth" on whether those previously infected should get vaccinated.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Sep 3, 2021

1 hour ago, BostonFNP said:

But the primary form of covid spread is droplet.

Got a link? I gave my source and they said it lingers in the air. That suggests aerosols. Got a counter?

jive turkey · Sep 3, 2021

1 hour ago, BostonFNP said:

1.I said "BS" once and you said it was inflammatory language and hurt your feelings. Don't you find it a bit hypocritical to say "BULL" less than a day afterwards?

2.It's clear your personal situation; you are quite literally fixated on it in multiple threads.

3.You didn't take the opportunity to "clearly state right here right now that if you are not antibody positive you should get vaccinated". I wanted to make sure that wasn't an unintentional omission; so here is a second chance to state it.

4.If it's about all of us, share some valid reasons not to be vaccinated if you have no immunity.

1.I call bull when you accuse me of things that aren't true, presume what I think or feel while unable to quote me, or turn what I say in to something else. You use things like "utter BS" to degrade an opinion. I didn't perceive it as inflammatory but you do..... so I said I would refrain. What more do you want?

2. Ignored

3. Oh heavens. I've addressed that dozens of times why must I type it again for you to understand? Are you seriously missing the messages where I address that directly?

4. Same response as #3. But here I'll go ahead and summarize what I've said before

-Everybody talk to their doctor if hesitant regardless of previous infection or not

- if one never had the infection, after talking to doctor I would FAVOR getting vaccine. I wouldn't say SHOULD, but FAVOR

-if previously infected, talked to doctor, not high risk, and decided it's not for you, I consider low risk previous infection informed decision a valid reason not to take it IF someone decided that for themselves

-I'm not going out in the streets having a parade with a megaphone and floats saying "don't get the vaccine, don't get the vaccine"