Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

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12 hours ago, heron said:

There it is … if your flawed reasoning can’t win the debate, pull the victim card!

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.  

Earlier in this discussion  I condemned people for bullying and chastising those who are hesitant and shared how many people I knew who were on the fence about the vaccine ultimately decided against it in response to the negative attitude from supporters.  This was especially the case when they experienced or witnessed this attitude from health care workers. 

Unfortunately many people are so consumed by their anger and frustration they cling to the need to go on being critical of the hesitant rather than be patient, compassionate and informative.  The results they produce are contrary to those they desire. 

Plainly put, no matter how right anyone believes they are about the vaccine,  being rude and disrespectful will not encourage people to vaccinate.  It will do the opposite, making them part of the problem.

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13 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

You clearly don't know what you're talking about.  

Earlier in this discussion  I condemned people for bullying and chastising those who are hesitant and shared how many people I knew who were on the fence about the vaccine ultimately decided against it in response to the negative attitude from supporters.  This was especially the case when they experienced or witnessed this attitude from health care workers. 

Unfortunately many people are so consumed by their anger and frustration they cling to the need to go on being critical of the hesitant rather than be patient, compassionate and informative.  The results they produce are contrary to those they desire. 

Plainly put, no matter how right anyone believes they are about the vaccine,  being rude and disrespectful will not encourage people to vaccinate.  It will do the opposite, making them part of the problem.

Maybe, that's one of the ways evolution work? 

People with sensitive feelings aren't allowed to survive, so their feelings won't be hurt anymore! 

I mean the big, bad, loudly, insulting robber is bearing down on you, but you can't run because he's so impolite and disrespectful......... 

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Can somebody fill me in please- I followed the first few pages, and it would be really hard to catch up at this point.  Maybe fill in the highlights?

Here's what I have so far:

  • OP lead by asking folks to post reasons not to get vaccinated, and posted a link to articles reinforcing the importance of vaccination.
  • A poster with a made up name, and a long list of credentials posted "When you realize the power for healing lies within, there will be no need for any drugs, and no need to pay for health insurance. "
  • A bunch of folks sniped at each other.

I guess my question is, did anybody post any valid* reasons not to get vaccinated?

*By "valid", I mean the sort of stuff we have always considered valid- Consensus of epidemiologist/virologists, peer reviewed articles, that sort of thing.

 

 

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Specializes in A variety.
5 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Can somebody fill me in please- I followed the first few pages, and it would be really hard to catch up at this point.  Maybe fill in the highlights?

Here's what I have so far:

  • 1.OP lead by asking folks to post reasons not to get vaccinated, and posted a link to articles reinforcing the importance of vaccination.
  • 2.A poster with a made up name, and a long list of credentials posted "When you realize the power for healing lies within, there will be no need for any drugs, and no need to pay for health insurance. "
  • A bunch of folks sniped at each other.

I guess my question is, did anybody post any valid* reasons not to get vaccinated?

*By "valid", I mean the sort of stuff we have always considered valid- Consensus of epidemiologist/virologists, peer reviewed articles, that sort of thing.

 

 

I can fill you in.

1. This summary isn't correct.  The original post requested evidenced based sources  to share for learning.  The OP (me) shared a concern regarding how effective the vaccine is for those previously infected. I shared articles showing reinfection was rare, and highlighted none of us found information regarding hospitalizations and deaths of the reinfected.  I later also stated that everyone should talk to their doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them, but I'm not on a crusade to tell people to get it or not.  I stated if someone that was previously infected, wasn't high risk, talked to their doctor and decided the vaccine wasn't for them in my opinion that's a valid reason not to and I would be understanding of it.  People may have mistook that to be advice for a layperson regarding whether or not they should take the vaccine.

Those that opposed that perspective and opinion pointed out all references from the CDC and scholarly sources conclude all eligible people should get the vaccine, regardless of the content of the study. They referenced the hospitalization and death rates of the unvaccinated among other statistics.  For those reasons they state there's no valid reason to not vaccinate. There were a few who, some vaccinated and others not, said they respected the opinions of others.

2. There was somebody who said all that. Not much more to say about that.

3. Very much so.  My opinion proved unpopular and unacceptable for many of those supporting vaccination.    They say my opinion  isn't a valid reason.  I say it is.  We disagree.  

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25 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Can somebody fill me in please- I followed the first few pages, and it would be really hard to catch up at this point.  Maybe fill in the highlights?

Here's what I have so far:

  • OP lead by asking folks to post reasons not to get vaccinated, and posted a link to articles reinforcing the importance of vaccination.
  • A poster with a made up name, and a long list of credentials posted "When you realize the power for healing lies within, there will be no need for any drugs, and no need to pay for health insurance. "
  • A bunch of folks sniped at each other.

I guess my question is, did anybody post any valid* reasons not to get vaccinated?

*By "valid", I mean the sort of stuff we have always considered valid- Consensus of epidemiologist/virologists, peer reviewed articles, that sort of thing.

 

 

No. Mostly the OP uses the thread to elevate invalid reasons to remain unvaccinated while calling all challenge to flawed reasoning "personal attack". 

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20 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

I later also stated that everyone should talk to their doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them

That would be awesome.

Unfortunately, there is a really big population in this country who don't.  Until they get sick, then they really want expert, science based care.

 

BTW- did anybody here have a credible claim that their doctor advised them not to get vaccinated because of a prior Covid infection?

 

 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-pcp-trends-idUSKBN1YK1Z4

So many people don't really have a health provider. 

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Specializes in A variety.
14 minutes ago, hherrn said:

That would be awesome.

1.Unfortunately, there is a really big population in this country who don't.  Until they get sick, then they really want expert, science based care.

 

BTW- did anybody here have a credible claim that their doctor advised them not to get vaccinated because of a prior Covid infection?

 

 

1. That's been a problem long before COVID considering all the other illnesses that kill in the 10s or 100s of thousands.

The challenge I see here is too much bias for one degree of science vs another.

Hard core "anti vaxxers" will reference doctors speaking to what they want to believe as evidence the vaccine isn't needed

Hard core "Pro vaxxers" will use the CDC and blanket statements made to get the vaccine as evidence everyone should get it

Each taking an extreme viewpoint dismisses scientific evidence contrary to what they think.

2. No.  I doubt that was expected or that anyone said they would be able to.

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On 8/23/2021 at 11:04 PM, hello_nurse555 said:

There are different schools of thought, and I'm not sure why you're asking instead of looking into yourself. Some say that means the body was exposed to the virus and mounted a defense before it latched. Then again we don't know much about the mechanism of the coronavirus or why some individuals are asymptomatic. The WHO went back and forth on whether asymptomatic individuals who tested positive for covid could spread the virus, and I think they settled on asymptomatic individuals don't transmit the virus. 

I noticed I was constantly exposed but didn't get sick for months. Then some peers who were the same started taking the test and had antibodies, so more of us started taking the test out of curiosity. 

It believe it's personal preference on whether you want to take the vaccine after at least 17 months of being sand blasted in the face with covid patients.   That's just how I feel.

I can respect other people's opinions, but being told what to do makes me want to do the opposite, personally. And I know a lot a lot of other hcw's who feel the same, just don't say anything, since going against the talking heads party line leads to a dogpile of bullying. Like we haven't earned our own opinions after all this. But hey to be a nurse is to be abused, really.

LOL Im asking you because you mentioned it, and on this forum thread we have been trying to provide evidence based information that supports what we are all trying to express.

But I guess I forget everything I learned in school and instead, I guess Ill just cite you and your personal experience instead of the science that has been backed by evidence for the last hundred or so years...cool cool

This is what this sounds like: "My sisters cousins boyfriends best friend had a friend whos nurse told them that they don't need the vaccine to be immune, it just happens."

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.

Figured I'd throw a little BMJ in here. It's a historical review. One part that stuck out to me was: 

"Another bit of irony is that finally in 1992, the Institute of Medicine admitted that, "the evidence is consistent with a causal relation between DPT vaccine and acute encephalopathy, defined in the studies reviewed as encephalopathy, encephalitis or encephalomyelitis, and the evidenceindicates a causal relation between DPT vaccine and anaphylaxis, betweenthe pertussis component of DPT vaccine and protracted, inconsolablecrying." In other words, brain damage in progress.

These are but a minuscule of the evidence available on the DPT vaccine but show just how evidence can be HIDDEN FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN THE GUISE PUBLIC PROTECTION ISSUES." (All caps for emphasis)

https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/how-can-vaccines-cause-damage

 

This clearly demonstrates a history of the medical community missing severe harm vaccines have caused in the past. When did we find out? It was licensed in 1949. They admitted the risk of encephalitis in 1992. That's a very long time to get answers. 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
4 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Figured I'd throw a little BMJ in here. It's a historical review. One part that stuck out to me was: 

"Another bit of irony is that finally in 1992, the Institute of Medicine admitted that, "the evidence is consistent with a causal relation between DPT vaccine and acute encephalopathy, defined in the studies reviewed as encephalopathy, encephalitis or encephalomyelitis, and the evidenceindicates a causal relation between DPT vaccine and anaphylaxis, betweenthe pertussis component of DPT vaccine and protracted, inconsolablecrying." In other words, brain damage in progress.

These are but a minuscule of the evidence available on the DPT vaccine but show just how evidence can be HIDDEN FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN THE GUISE PUBLIC PROTECTION ISSUES." (All caps for emphasis)

https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/how-can-vaccines-cause-damage

 

This clearly demonstrates a history of the medical community missing severe harm vaccines have caused in the past. When did we find out? It was licensed in 1949. They admitted the risk of encephalitis in 1992. That's a very long time to get answers. 

Do we should just bring all these diseases back because their vaccines have side effects.  You must be very young and had the fortune of never knowing anyone with polio, measles,  mumps . diphtheria, typhoid and tetorifice.  You know why you have no idea of the fear engendered by these diseases?  Vaccines.  But all presents to humanity can't be wrapped in a beautiful package free from any harm.  If you expect perfection, you will deny yourself a lot of what vaccines have to offer....a life free if some awful diseases. 

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