Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[jive turkey]

1 hour ago, BostonFNP said:

The cost of being treated for an anaphylactic reaction is a fraction of a penny on the dollar to paying for a covid hospitalization. 

If you have health insurance or medicare/aid, the bill is getting paid. If you have a legit vaccine injury, there is also the vaccine court to pay costs.  

Thank you for sharing that. The question wasn't about which is cheaper it was whether or not they wanted to pay the admission AND other bills after insisting someone they don't know take a drug.  Health insurance policies aren't paying mortgages.

 

1 hour ago, subee said:

.  Can you cite a case where anyone getting the vaccine died from an anaphylactic reaction in the US?

If you also would like to insist someone you don't know take a drug and feel confident nothing will ever happen to them, just say you'll gladly cover any losses they incur should it happen.

2 others couldn't commit to that, neither can you. 

I've already acknowledged so far, adverse reactions are rare and my position is not so much about how safe the drug is. The discussion got diverted by people making it personal again, telling me what I should do without even knowing my medical history or vaccination status.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

15 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Thank you for sharing that. The question wasn't about which is cheaper it was whether or not they wanted to pay the admission AND other bills after insisting someone they don't know take a drug.  Health insurance policies aren't paying mortgages.

What are you even talking about? You don't miss a mortgage payment because you had an anaphylactic reaction.

 

 

[toomuchbaloney]

7 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

What are you even talking about? You don't miss a mortgage payment because you had an anaphylactic reaction.

 

 

We can only guess that the OP believes that such thinking and diversions of focus are compelling and represent critical thinking relative to vaccination during a pandemic.  

[jive turkey]

29 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

What are you even talking about? You don't miss a mortgage payment because you had an anaphylactic reaction.

 

 

This one is on me.  I though I had and intended to include the possibility of latent effects that aren't often discovered until years later.  It's highly unlikely serious harm will come to the majority of people. Some will have an adverse reaction. You're not willing to take financial responsibility for anybody to tell a stranger they should take a medication. 

I'm not against you advocating for the vaccine. I even advocate for it in a different manner than you and everyone else here.  You shouldn't make it your business to tell somebody you don't know what drugs to take.  I may say see your doctor if you have concerns and consider taking it if you're eligible, but never so bold as to say just go take it.  

 

26 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

We can only guess that the OP believes that such thinking and diversions of focus are compelling and represent critical thinking relative to vaccination during a pandemic.  

The diversion came from YOU and one other person telling me what to do.  I never asked anyone's opinion what I should do personally.  Go back n reread the original post and you won't have to be guessing anymore

[BostonFNP, APRN]

4 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

This one is on me.  I though I had and intended to include the possibility of latent effects that aren't often discovered until years later.  It's highly unlikely serious harm will come to the majority of people. Some will have an adverse reaction. You're not willing to take financial responsibility for anybody to tell a stranger they should take a medication. 

I literally spend my entire day prescribing and re-evaluation medication. I tell patients to take different medications all day. I know some will have adverse effects but the benefit of the medication outweighs the risks. This is how all of medicine works. I don't take financial responsibility for adverse effects just like the patient doesn't take financial responsibility for their condition if they refuse.  It's an asinine straw-man argument.

 

[jive turkey]

14 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

I literally spend my entire day prescribing and re-evaluation medication. I tell patients to take different medications all day. I know some will have adverse effects but the benefit of the medication outweighs the risks. This is how all of medicine works. I don't take financial responsibility for adverse effects just like the patient doesn't take financial responsibility for their condition if they refuse.  It's an asinine straw-man argument.

 

Do you write prescriptions for patients you've never seen without knowing their medical history? Knowing their allergies?  Having at least accesss to their chart if you've never evaluated them.

when you evaluate somebody and then write a prescription that makes complete sense and I wholeheartedly agree with you. But you are not evaluating me you don't know my medical history and you are not my provider. 

  What's asinine is I have to explain something so simple to somebody who knows better. Let's refrain from using derogatory terms to describe each other or arguments. if you can't do that then we can stop interacting and you can just "be right"

 

 

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Do you write prescriptions for patients you've never seen without knowing their medical history? Knowing their allergies?  Having at least accesss to their chart if you've never evaluated them.

when you evaluate somebody and then write a prescription that makes complete sense and I wholeheartedly agree with you. But you are not evaluating me you don't know my medical history and you are not my provider. 

  What's asinine is I have to explain something so simple to somebody who knows better. Let's refrain from using derogatory terms to describe each other or arguments. if you can't do that then we can stop interacting and you can just "be right"

 

 

We’re actually not talking about writing scripts. This is really about risk vs benefit. I have no idea what your specialty is but in mine (emergency), we get consent for non-emergent & some emergent procedures & treatments. These include conscious sedation, or consents, transfusions, intubation for covid/non-covid resp distress, etc. In all of these cases, the risks & benefits of the procedure are spelled out & the pt/poa says yay or nay, then signs. Very rare that someone says no. 

You’re scratching your head now, wondering where I’m going. My point is that I believe the past 18 months have shown the risks of covid.  Vaccination is the way to the end of this pandemic. That’s the overwhelming benefit. Overwhelming. 

You worry about anaphylaxis. That’s the whole point of watching folks after the shots. Plus true life threatening anaphylaxis simply isn’t that common. 

Not sure I really understand your point. Unless you’re trolling. 

[toomuchbaloney]

The vaccines are safe and effective. Unvaccinated people are putting EVERYONE at increased risk. All eligible adults should vaccinate ASAP and seek booster immunizations as recommended.  

Covid-19: Cases in children rise sharply in US as doctors call for vaccine approval

Quote

The academy urged the FDA to approve the vaccines on the basis of data from the initial trial cohort and to rely on two month follow-up safety data as used for adult vaccines rather than its planned six month follow-up data. It said, “Based on evidence from the over 340 million doses [of covid-19 vaccines] administered to adults and to adolescents aged 12-17 as well as among adults 18 and older, there is no biological plausibility for serious adverse immunological and inflammatory events to occur more than two months after covid-19 vaccine administration.”

The academy also asked the FDA to evaluate clinical trial requirements for children under 5.

We need to vaccinate so that children can go to school.  Vaccinate like our society has done before. Listen to public health experts who are publicly accountable. Get vaccinated and help stop this pandemic. 

[jive turkey]

34 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

We’re actually not talking about writing scripts. This is really about risk vs benefit. I have no idea what your specialty is but in mine (emergency), we get consent for non-emergent & some emergent procedures & treatments. These include conscious sedation, or consents, transfusions, intubation for covid/non-covid resp distress, etc. In all of these cases, the risks & benefits of the procedure are spelled out & the pt/poa says yay or nay, then signs. Very rare that someone says no. 

You’re scratching your head now, wondering where I’m going. My point is that I believe the past 18 months have shown the risks of covid.  Vaccination is the way to the end of this pandemic. That’s the overwhelming benefit. Overwhelming. 

You worry about anaphylaxis. That’s the whole point of watching folks after the shots. Plus true life threatening anaphylaxis simply isn’t that common. 

Not sure I really understand your point. Unless you’re trolling. 

 Why did you waste your time writing paragraphs if you think I'm a troll?? Exactly. Your failure to understand my point doesn't constitute me being a troll it means you need clarification.

 Go back and reread what I said about anaphylaxis and how unlikely it is. Go back to the original post and read what my original concern is. It wasn't about writing prescriptions. Thank you for the explanation of what you do in the ED but I never disputed ED protocols.   You're rebutting  a discussion I had with somebody who was claiming  as a nurse I can go around injecting people with drugs without any protocols or doctors orders.

 So before you challenge me go back and read everything else I said much of which favors vaccination and your position about it. If you don't have the intellectual prowess to debate me without resorting to derogatory comments, have a good afternoon. If you have more to offer to address my concerns please do.  Unlike everyone else here I'm not one sided about this discussion.

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

Jive, I got that your original post basically stated that you aren’t sure about the vaccine being effective in those who have already been infected. But you drive this discussion off topic, so here we are. And not for nuthin’ but you cry about people being mean to you and then insult me. I’m thinking geo 20/ativan 4, resume the conversation when you wake up in 6 hours. 

[toomuchbaloney]

14 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

 Why did you waste your time writing paragraphs if you think I'm a troll?? Exactly. Your failure to understand my point doesn't constitute me being a troll it means you need clarification.

Because you engage in trolling tactics with combative language where you should have valid reasoning to remain unvaccinated.  I think that the evidence shows that you haven't made your point. Or maybe you aren't making the points that you are trying to make.  

Is it your point that you are open minded and can understand and appreciate the concerns that cause people to remain unvaccinated...and I cannot understand the concerns?

The premise of this thread is to discuss VALID reasons to remain unvaccinated.  

[jive turkey]

56 minutes ago, emtb2rn said:

Jive, I got that your original post basically stated that you aren’t sure about the vaccine being effective in those who have already been infected. But you drive this discussion off topic, so here we are. And not for nuthin’ but you cry about people being mean to you and then insult me. I’m thinking geo 20/ativan 4, resume the conversation when you wake up in 6 hours. 

There's nothing to cry about. I'm calling you out for not having the strength to argue without getting in your feelings and launching insults.   Anybody who comes at me sideways gets it back.  That's what you experienced and didn't take it very well. 

Considering your psych cocktail recommendation you clearly can't argue intellectually without resorting to juvenile rebuttals.  Save it for the playground and be dismissed.  

Deuces