Well, I don't know how many people have followed my thread on being a transgender nursing student. I have read all the responses and weighed out the most logical and prudent sounding advice. As suggested, I approached someone in Administration, who at first said there was nothing in the school bylaws that would stop me from transitioning at school and was very encouraging and positive this would not even be an issue. This person said let them consult with other members of Administration and the President. My name was never given to anyone in Administration or so I was told.
I have waited many weeks for an answer, over a month has went by. When finally a few days ago, I got a call to come up to the school so they could discuss with me the decision the school had reached. The answer was a negative, that I COULD NOT transition at school:no:. Furthermore, I was given to understand they consulted with an outside governing body that laid down this decision. This governing body stated "This is not within the schools foundational values and such a thing would go counter to the schools morals and values." I was told by said person in Administration that I could not come to school "openly and publically" as a female, but what I did in my personal life had no reflection on the school.
So it is with regret:bluecry1: that I am transfering from this schools nursing program as soon as I have completed as much coursework as I can and transfer to another nursing school within the city.
I've been following the threads and I checked with my legal eagle ( Hubby ) re having your degree and license invalidated when you undergo gender change surgery and he says you will retain license and degree no matter what gender you are. That may be related to the state you are living in though. (CA is where he practices).
Do check with you ACLU branch and they can get you the information and/or point you in the right direction.
Stay true to your self as you continue your journey.
I don't see how the school can legally prohibit you from transitioning at school.
They can harrass her right out.
Sometimes it doesn't matter if it isn't legal. Not everyone has the resources, emotional and financial, for such a bitter, protracted battle, particularly if one has been fighting one's entire life.
I often ask my Christian friends, if the God you speak of is as loving as you say He is, why isn't he supposed to love me?
I've been a Christian a long time and this is one of the things that upsets me the most- that some churches wish to exclude people based on their own interpretations of scripture. Can't say anything about their interpretation, but my Bible says God loves us. Doesn't say anything about "except......."
I think it's sad that some religious people will actually try to keep people out of church and say they don't have a right to be there because they think a certain thing is a sin (you will note that they don't say anything about their own). My uncle was like this- ranted on and on, but when I asked him why he should be allowed in church as an adulterer, he was pretty quiet. I guess it wasn't quite so fun for him then. I don't think he's ever changed his views, but I hope in time others will.
I also sincerely hope that if you want to be part of a faith community or practice religious beliefs, that you find a community that is accepting and kind.
You speak of the rights of religious groups, what about the right of the individual? Don't I have the right to go to school where I want, live my life the way that will make me happy and not worry about being run out of the program because I don't fit some "norm"?
You have the right to live as you want, but you don't have the right to go to school where you want...that is why they call them "private" schools. It's not a "transgender" thing, it's a "that's how it is" thing.
Private schools have broad discretion when it comes to admission and advancement practices...and students pay a premium to be with others that are like-minded.
Private schools don't have to be "hip" or "understanding" or "modern" or "politically correct"....because they simply, don't have to be. Students that apply there accept that when they are admitted.
The philosophy, promotion, and spirituality of any religious organization that chooses to create a religious institution, has the right to expect their students, staff, faculty, etc, to be somewhat conforming, or at minimum, supporting, their way of life on that campus and to protect campus culture.
I never stated that you bashed the school....not once.
I also understand that your surgery decision was a life-long process, and I fully support your right to have it.
However, you have to understand that some religious groups are not accepting to that type of surgery. In fact, most religious groups are not accepting gender reassignment surgery and see it as "playing God".
That is their right to believe that...just as it is your right to disagree with it and seek to complete your education elsewhere.
They didn't reject you as student, they simply choose not to support you as a student on their campus, who was making a major decision, that could not be kept private, and that was a choice that you made to have the surgery while you are in school vs waiting until graduation.
So don't say that the school is being discriminatory or that "your rights" are being violated in some way...they are not. That isn't discrimination.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I start this response by saying thank you, to all the people who have expressed concern and regret. It's nice to see people who actually care about another person.
To answer a few questions and concerns expressed in this thread:
1. I DO start my clinicals Fall '09 at my current school. I only have one more trimester of gen ed, then I will do health assessment, pharm I, and intro to professional nursing the summer before I start my clinicals. I'm trying to pull my grades back up high enough to transfer to another area NS. Through my job, I know many of the instructors in both institutes programs.
2. I have put off what I have wanted to do with my life for others my entire life. I've given to others till there was nothing left to give and still I gave more. Without sounding selfish (hopefully):uhoh21:, I promised myself that I would not continue to allow other's to dictate how I lived my life. There was always worry about this one being shunned and/or ostracized because of how I live. I have relatives who have been in denial since I came out many moons ago and still refuse to see me for who I am rather than what I am. I am tired of being alienated in my own life for things I can't really control.
3. This will ensure future success and happiness for me. I've been unhappy too many years. This year i've been more at peace with myself. And by transitioning while in college, there will be no issues of changing my name years later and not being able to use the degree that I have worked so hard to obtain.
4. I feel that a public school will be more accepting and diverse, than my current school. I will not put my current NS down. They have an excellent program, with great instructors and wonderful rapport with the students. But my needs can not be met here.
I am really looking forward to starting my clinicals, but I will put them off until I have either been accepted into another program or they change policy. Seeing that a policy change won't happen this side of Heaven, i'll be transfering to another program. lol
Let me begin by saying Happy New Year and that I totally support your desire to complete your transition. One thought I have is if you are satisfied with the nursing program you are currently enrolled in, then, would you consider putting off your transition until after graduation? I totally understand and respect that fact that you are tired of rearranging your life for the convienence of others. However, it seems that becoming a nurse may be a close second in your priorities. Are you in a position to pay for the surgery, do you have health insurance that will at least partially pay for the complete transition? Because I am wondering if it would be better to at least have earning your nursing degree behind you, money saved and are in a better position to financially care for yourself.
I didn't catch your original thread, but I wish you well in this process regardless of what decisions you make.
You have the right to live as you want, but you don't have the right to go to school where you want...that is why they call them "private" schools. It's not a "transgender" thing, it's a "that's how it is" thing.
Private schools have broad discretion when it comes to admission and advancement practices...and students pay a premium to be with others that are like-minded.
Private schools don't have to be "hip" or "understanding" or "modern" or "politically correct"....because they simply, don't have to be. Students that apply there accept that when they are admitted.
The philosophy, promotion, and spirituality of any religious organization that chooses to create a religious institution, has the right to expect their students, staff, faculty, etc, to be somewhat conforming, or at minimum, supporting, their way of life on that campus and to protect campus culture.
I never stated that you bashed the school....not once.
I also understand that your surgery decision was a life-long process, and I fully support your right to have it.
However, you have to understand that some religious groups are not accepting to that type of surgery. In fact, most religious groups are not accepting gender reassignment surgery and see it as "playing God".
That is their right to believe that...just as it is your right to disagree with it and seek to complete your education elsewhere.
They didn't reject you as student, they simply choose not to support you as a student on their campus, who was making a major decision, that could not be kept private, and that was a choice that you made to have the surgery while you are in school vs waiting until graduation.
So don't say that the school is being discriminatory or that "your rights" are being violated in some way...they are not. That isn't discrimination.
Again, have you even heard me mention the word "discrimination" or speak of what rights I should or shouldn't have? I expressed the opinion that individuals should have the "right" to live as they see fit. The right to live as we see fit is a "natural" birth and God given right, not something anyone can take away from you. Discrimination hasn't even been used in any of my posts, not by me.
Not that I had any other legal rights pertaining to my transition. As a transgender person, I have very little legal protection. I could lose my job tomorrow, but that won't happen because I work in a wonderful accepting place. But my other transgender brothers and sisters aren't always so lucky. Hardly nowhere protects gender identity and that is a form of discrimination. One of the local new stations in my city recently did a piece on why so many transgender people resort to prostitution in this city. As I've mentioned earlier, there have been many slayings this year of transgender people. And most of them were working the stroll, to make money to survive.
Neither have I mentioned the school rejecting me, I am rejecting the school. I am rejecting bigoted, narrow minded and oppressive thinking. No, they don't have to be "hip", "modern" or "politically correct". But is not understanding and acceptance some of the foundational principles of Christianity? Didn't Jesus accept people as they were and allowed them to come to him as they were, faults and all. From the way Christians espouse Judeo-Christianity, it is an all inclusive religion. Accepting of all people. But that is sadly not true.
I could have kept it private and caused far more problems for myself later on. Honesty has always been something I strive for. I see no need to hide anything. Becareful what you ask me, I will always answer with brutal honesty.
I hate to say this, but IT is discriminatory. There is no other way to look at it. It's discrimination based on a supposed moral superiority and religious outlook. Religion is high discriminatory, if you don't think so look back through recorded history at some of the older church teachings. Look at all the pogroms(sp?), purges and ethnic/religious cleansings the Christian faith has had. And not just Christianity, most religions are highly discriminating. People said that it wasn't discimination to segregate black and whites here in America. Look at all the untold and almost irreparable damage segregation and racism have caused this country.
And I understand all too well what religious groups will or won't accept. I've lived my whole life listening to preachings moralizing in church on Sunday, but don't want the congregation to know that they've slept with half the gay men in the church. That actually happened in my hometown, by the way. And the preacher outed every last one of those young mostly underage gay males he slept with. I've been told there's a scripture that basically says look at the message not the messenger. You can't help but allow the behavior of the messengers of Christ to taint how you see the religion when their behavior is counter to all they themselves are preaching. I wonder how so many preachers and paritioners can even stand up in pulpit or church and condemn others for licentious, immoral, or deviant behavior when they do the same or worse things in the dark.
Again you are wrong....I can attend school where ever I so desire. It shouldn't matter if it's private, Christian, public or a school at the bottom of the sewer. If I choose to go there I should be allowed to go. But I understand your reasoning. By your thought, because they are a private college dedicated to a certain moral and religious outlook, that I should also have that outlook. They seek like minded students and staff. My ability to go to school were I want is called "freedom of choice". Last time I checked, it was something the founders of this country fought for. A place to be free of persecution of any form. But America has become what it once abhorred.
Let me begin by saying Happy New Year and that I totally support your desire to complete your transition. One thought I have is if you are satisfied with the nursing program you are currently enrolled in, then, would you consider putting off your transition until after graduation? I totally understand and respect that fact that you are tired of rearranging your life for the convienence of others. However, it seems that becoming a nurse may be a close second in your priorities. Are you in a position to pay for the surgery, do you have health insurance that will at least partially pay for the complete transition? Because I am wondering if it would be better to at least have earning your nursing degree behind you, money saved and are in a better position to financially care for yourself.
I didn't catch your original thread, but I wish you well in this process regardless of what decisions you make.
Both are actually my top priorities right now. As far as surgery goes, I don't plan on having any major surgery while i'm in school. I use the word transition to describe the process. As I explained to someone else, most physicians who deal with transgender patients DO NOTsuggest the full SRS. It has been proven and shown that many transsexuals, MTF and FTM often go back and forth between genders. The majority of my significant others have accepted me as I am and have no desire for me to change anything or change myself to please them or others.
Any major surgery I plan on having is all post-graduation. I can afford to have minor things like laser hair removal and laser skin resurfacing done now, which i'm about to start in January. I don't plan on or even really need much surgery to achieve a female look and I hope I don't sound facetious saying that. lol
I planned on having money saved up to do what I wanted to get done after I finished school. It has always been my plan to put off any major plastic surgery until after i've been working for a while. I don't rush into things. I'm basically shopping around right now for trans-friendly physicians.
Again, have you even heard me mention the word "discrimination" or speak of what rights I should or shouldn't have? I expressed the opinion that individuals should have the "right" to live as they see fit. The right to live as we see fit is a "natural" birth and God given right, not something anyone can take away from you. Discrimination hasn't even been used in any of my posts, not by me.
Not that I had any other legal rights pertaining to my transition. As a transgender person, I have very little legal protection. I could lose my job tomorrow, but that won't happen because I work in a wonderful accepting place. But my other transgender brothers and sisters aren't always so lucky. Hardly nowhere protects gender identity and that is a form of discrimination. One of the local new stations in my city recently did a piece on why so many transgender people resort to prostitution in this city. As I've mentioned earlier, there have been many slayings this year of transgender people. And most of them were working the stroll, to make money to survive.
Neither have I mentioned the school rejecting me, I am rejecting the school. I am rejecting bigoted, narrow minded and oppressive thinking. No, they don't have to be "hip", "modern" or "politically correct". But is not understanding and acceptance some of the foundational principles of Christianity? Didn't Jesus accept people as they were and allowed them to come to him as they were, faults and all. From the way Christians espouse Judeo-Christianity, it is an all inclusive religion. Accepting of all people. But that is sadly not true.
I could have kept it private and caused far more problems for myself later on. Honesty has always been something I strive for. I see no need to hide anything. Becareful what you ask me, I will always answer with brutal honesty.
I hate to say this, but IT is discriminatory. There is no other way to look at it. It's discrimination based on a supposed moral superiority and religious outlook. Religion is high discriminatory, if you don't think so look back through recorded history at some of the older church teachings. Look at all the pogroms(sp?), purges and ethnic/religious cleansings the Christian faith has had. And not just Christianity, most religions are highly discriminating. People said that it wasn't discimination to segregate black and whites here in America. Look at all the untold and almost irreparable damage segregation and racism have caused this country.
And I understand all too well what religious groups will or won't accept. I've lived my whole life listening to preachings moralizing in church on Sunday, but don't want the congregation to know that they've slept with half the gay men in the church. That actually happened in my hometown, by the way. And the preacher outed every last one of those young mostly underage gay males he slept with. I've been told there's a scripture that basically says look at the message not the messenger. You can't help but allow the behavior of the messengers of Christ to taint how you see the religion when their behavior is counter to all they themselves are preaching. I wonder how so many preachers and paritioners can even stand up in pulpit or church and condemn others for licentious, immoral, or deviant behavior when they do the same or worse things in the dark.
Again you are wrong....I can attend school where ever I so desire. It shouldn't matter if it's private, Christian, public or a school at the bottom of the sewer. If I choose to go there I should be allowed to go. But I understand your reasoning. By your thought, because they are a private college dedicated to a certain moral and religious outlook, that I should also have that outlook. They seek like minded students and staff. My ability to go to school were I want is called "freedom of choice". Last time I checked, it was something the founders of this country fought for. A place to be free of persecution of any form. But America has become what it once abhorred.
For the record, I do not support discrimination of transgenders in the workplace...nor with gays. I consider this equal to discrimination based on race.
People don't choose to be their race, I also don't think the people choose to be gay or choose to have gender identity disorder...so both should be protected, in my opinion, at a federal level.
But at the same time, I don't think the school is being narrow minded...they are just supporting what they believe in and want to keep that culture on their campus...just as YOU are supporting what you believe in.
I just don't want you to think I have an issue with transgendered people...quite the opposite. I fully support them.
But at the same time, I don't think the school is being narrow minded...they are just supporting what they believe in and want to keep that culture on their campus...just as YOU are supporting what you believe in.
While they have the right to believe what they want, it is still narrow-minded.
But at the same time, I don't think the school is being narrow minded...they are just supporting what they believe in and want to keep that culture on their campus...just as YOU are supporting what you believe in.
I bet someone said the very exact thing when the issue of integration came up...
:yeah:you seem to be a very strong person who stands up for themselves and that's great.
sassijac
10 Posts
I've been following the threads and I checked with my legal eagle ( Hubby ) re having your degree and license invalidated when you undergo gender change surgery and he says you will retain license and degree no matter what gender you are. That may be related to the state you are living in though. (CA is where he practices).
Do check with you ACLU branch and they can get you the information and/or point you in the right direction.
Stay true to your self as you continue your journey.