Unfair Discipline at Work...What do you Think?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2005

I'd be half-tempted to write an apology saying "I'm sorry that i was so busy with my own dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, cough, fever, congestion, that i wasn't able to violate HIPAA regulations to tell this person where her granddaughter was".

I agree! Excellent!

explorer · Apr 20, 2005

Last week I was sick...major headache, puking my guts out, diarrhea, cough, fever, congestion, etc. So...I went to our hospital's urgent care. While I was on my way to the bathroom so I could give them a urine sample, I started to feel dizzy, so I leaned my head against the nurses' station for a minute or two until I felt better. While I was leaning there, a patient's grandmother obviously recognized me as an employee asked me what room her granddaughter was in. I told her that I was not on duty, that I was sick, and that I didn't know. She then said, "Well, can you find out?" I said, "No, I cannot find out. I am here as a patient, I am not on duty, I am SICK, so I really have no need to know...you will have to wait for a nurse who is on duty. Leave me alone...I feel terrible." Well...she is claiming that I told her to f*** off and that I used a lot of profanity and told her to go to h***...that I was extremely rude, that I flipped her off, and list of other things. I generally don't swear or flash obscene gestures, so my manager just blew her off...however the director of nurses did not. The DON wants me to write a letter apologizing to the woman for being rude and swearing at her...if I don't she says she will take disciplinary action against me. I have no idea what discipline she is thinking of, but either way, why should I be disciplined for something that I didn't do and even if I did happened while I was off duty?
Really just venting more than anything, but I do not want to apologize to this woman! :angryfire

The only crime you have committed is being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

:balloons:

live4today, RN · Apr 21, 2005

Just one of MANY reasons why I try at all costs to avoid obtaining care at a facility where I work!.....................................................

I hear ya loud and clear! I'm the same way! :)

live4today, RN · Apr 21, 2005

There is no way that I would compromise my self-respect and write that letter. I would just have to tell the DON that I would face what ever discipline they had in store or I would quit.
I hope you're feeling better.

Very wise words! That's EXACTLY what I would say, too. :)

rebel_red · Apr 21, 2005

Its obscene that this situation even exists. How much do you like this job?? Ok so I am a little hot headed today, but apologize for something that didn't even occur? Absolutely adore MarieLPN's idea.

Hope you are feeling better. Wish the "profession" of nursing would support its professionals.

Take Care,

Tres

CoffeeRTC, BSN, RN · Apr 21, 2005

OMGoodness...you were in a hospital gown for goodness sake....

I would go the HIPAA rte.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Apr 21, 2005

If I were in your place, I'd tell the DON to go ahead and fire me if that's the consequences for NOT writing the letter. There's too many nursing jobs out there to put up with being treated like garbage, especially for something you didn't do.......Stand your ground, you did NOTHING wrong. :angryfire The unmitigated gall of some people.........!!

CHATSDALE · Apr 21, 2005

DO NOT write a letter that could ever be misconstrued as bad action on your part...

you will leave yourself wide open to what ever the dopy grandmother wants to hold you responsible for ... two years from now you will be hard put to prove that you weren't on duty on a certain day

and at the very least this would go on your file and when you apply for another job someday a don who doesn't know you from the fence post will pull this out and tell calling party 'gee there is a paper in here about how rude she was to some poor old lady'

kitty=^..^=cat · Apr 21, 2005

I know how distressing it can be to have a sick loved one...maybe this woman didn't even think about that...just recognized my face and that was it!
Which doesn't excuse the fact that the patient's grandmother said untrue things about you in her complaint...
I listen to lots of patient complaints - I listen with empathy and also with skepticism. Probably 95% + of them are either partially or totally fabricated. I've had ER patients complain about staff members/physicians that weren't even on duty during the visit. A little digging finds that maybe the patient was dissatisfied with the number of Lortabs that were (or weren't) prescribed during a prior ER visit or some such situation...
Most state rules and regulations require the documentation and follow-up of all complaints.

drdan · Apr 21, 2005

If you were there as a patient, what does it matter what you said to that lady. You should only be held liable for saying something wrong when your on the clock and "working" if I'm right. If they are not paying you for your time there, how can they hold you responsible for saying something you shouldn't have said to another patient (especially since you didn't say anything wrong).

PicklesRN, RN · Apr 21, 2005

...I said, "No, I cannot find out. I am here as a patient, I am not on duty, I am SICK, so I really have no need to know...you will have to wait for a nurse who is on duty. Leave me alone...I feel terrible." ...

I have only read the first pages of replies you received but it appears I am going to disagree with most here.

While I don't believe you had any reason to obtain information for this woman I have to admit I fully disagree with your presentation. I'd feel a lot better if you were paraphrasing your words but instead you use quotation marks and that tells me you used those words or that attitude at the very least.

You had a few options;

1) Find out the information for her,

2) Flag down someone that could point her in the right direction,

3) Claim total ignorance because afterall there is no reason she should have had any clue where you work,

4) Point her in the direction that she can find someone on her own.

Honestly, if I was the DON there and I was faced with an employee that said what you claim you said - your days would be numbered. As a DON I would have no problems with any of the above four suggestions. But since the woman does know you are an employee and you told her you have no need to know her information and to leave you alone... that's going too far. We don't like it when we are treated that way by our patients or their family, our patient's and their family members don't like it when we treat them that way either.

Think about it, shrugging your shoulders and telling her you had no idea and gestering to where staff were available... that takes less effort than going through the drama of telling her how sick you are and why you won't get her information and how bad you feel.

If you were wearing even the bottoms of your scrubs then you are still representing the hospital to some degree.

Bottom line, it would have taken less time to be nice, and if you really weren't wearing your scrubs she should have had no reason to approach you to begin with.

medsurgnurse, RN · Apr 21, 2005

i have only read the first pages of replies you received but it appears i am going to disagree with most here.
while i don't believe you had any reason to obtain information for this woman i have to admit i fully disagree with your presentation. i'd feel a lot better if you were paraphrasing your words but instead you use quotation marks and that tells me you used those words or that attitude at the very least.
you had a few options;
1) find out the information for her,
2) flag down someone that could point her in the right direction,
3) claim total ignorance because afterall there is no reason she should have had any clue where you work,
4) point her in the direction that she can find someone on her own.
honestly, if i was the don there and i was faced with an employee that said what you claim you said - your days would be numbered. as a don i would have no problems with any of the above four suggestions. but since the woman does know you are an employee and you told her you have no need to know her information and to leave you alone... that's going too far. we don't like it when we are treated that way by our patients or their family, our patient's and their family members don't like it when we treat them that way either.
think about it, shrugging your shoulders and telling her you had no idea and gestering to where staff were available... that takes less effort than going through the drama of telling her how sick you are and why you won't get her information and how bad you feel.
if you were wearing even the bottoms of your scrubs then you are still representing the hospital to some degree.
bottom line, it would have taken less time to be nice, and if you really weren't wearing your scrubs she should have had no reason to approach you to begin with.

have you ever been sick? have you ever vomited so much, you feel like the next heave will bring up toenails? have you ever been s sick you felt dizzy and needed to lean on someone so you wouldn't fall down? have you ever brought a mop bucket to bed so you wouldn't have to keep walking to bathroom to puke? this poster was sick, and off-duty. she was patient! not an employee. she did tell the questioner that she did not know and was there as a patient. at that moment her obligation ceased. the questioner/complainer persisted in questioning a patient for information which this patient was not privy to.

your suggestions are:

1) find out the information for her,:uhoh21: (sure, when she can't even make it to the bathroom)

2) flag down someone that could point her in the right direction,( she is about to pass out)

3) claim total ignorance because afterall there is no reason she should have had any clue where you work, ( she told the questioner/complainer that she did not know any information)

4) point her in the direction that she can find someone on her own. (it is quite obvious that the people in a uniform an behind the desk could help. the questioner/complainer choose in stead to ask the patient in a hospital gown.)

now i might understand that the questioner/complainer may have confused the patient with a staff if she had been in uniform. she was not!