Unfair Discipline at Work...What do you Think?

bobnurse · Apr 20, 2005

well if there were no witnessess, its your word against hers.........It appears you dont have a very supportive DON. I do feel you could of lead her in the right direction a little better...A nurse is always a nurse...But neverless, your DON should know better to believe that patient. I cant see any nurse doing that. IF you were that type of person, there should be patterns of behavior to justify it.

Take it to the next level.........I know you have to satisfy patients, but come on. This seems to be out there...

Jolie, BSN · Apr 20, 2005

Just one of MANY reasons why I try at all costs to avoid obtaining care at a facility where I work!

As a former nurse manager, I understand the c**p about the "customer" always being right, so I get why the DON is insisting on an apology. However, since there is absolutely no evidence that you mistreated this woman, and your manager is backing you up, it is the DON who ought to do the apologizing.

She, not you, should write a very generic letter to the offended party stating that she is terribly sorry that her experience in the ER was not satisfactory, and that she is doing everything in her power to see that the situation is corrected. Period. End of story. It is the kind of "sucking up" that administration has to do at times. It is not your responsibility, and should not be made to be your problem. After all, if the ER desk had been properly staffed, this woman would not have had to disturb another patient for information!

mugwump · Apr 20, 2005

personnsly I would write a letter make it as honest and truthful as you can be as nice as you can tell her you were trying not to puke on her and were fighting off diahrea and trying very hard not to pass out. I understand i was not as pleasant as i usually am but was sick. Next time I will try to find out where someone is for you but you have to be willing to exept the consequences a passed out person on the floor. You could also let her know that since you were not there working you would be violating a federal law (HIPPA) if you were have found out where the person she was looking for was. Next time I say rear back and throw up on her.

Yes I know this is not the most professional way of handling it but I say the funnest.

directcare4me · Apr 20, 2005

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that if you aren't on duty, HIPPAA prevents you from not only sharing patient info, but possessing it as well. As a patient in that facility, you do not have the "need to know" and should not be expected to assist family members. I would approach it from this direction with my DON and ask her to check with your facility's legal dept to see if you even could have helped this person, legally. I don't think so.

As for the rest of it, I don't think that we are nurses 24/7. My occupation is nursing, not my whole identity. I would have done as you did, except maybe not said as much to her as you did. (I do believe that you did not say the things she accused you of) I would probably have just said "sorry, excuse me", when she first asked me, and then would have continued on to the bathroom. Were you in uniform or something? The thing I hate most about "family-centered care" is that we hold the family members accountable for nothing. Not even good manners and common sense. It was inappropriate for her to ask you for assistance, as you were a patient, not on duty.

kitty=^..^=cat · Apr 20, 2005

As a patient in that facility, you do not have the "need to know" and should not be expected to assist family members. I would approach it from this direction with my DON and ask her to check with your facility's legal dept to see if you even could have helped this person, legally. I don't think so.

Agree --

Have you considered talking to your facility's compliance officer? You might just approach it from an inquisitive angle -- "With everything we've been told about HIPAA and protecting patient information and who is appropriate to access certain information, please explain this expectation that off-the-clock employees become involved in patient-related issues if they're here as a patient?"

He or she should be able to help you out with this. If you're pressed to write the letter, write it -- it's not "a hill to die on".

CMS requires that all patient complaints be resolved. As the CNO of my facility, it's the responsibility of either myself or our Director of Quality and Risk Management to write follow-up/apology letters to assure that they're appropriate and don't contain language that creates liability for us.

Good luck!

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Apr 20, 2005

I'd be half-tempted to write an apology saying "I'm sorry that i was so busy with my own dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, cough, fever, congestion, that i wasn't able to violate HIPAA regulations to tell this person where her granddaughter was".

I'd fight it. I would not apologize for something i didn't do, just to get that person off of the DONs back.

ERNurse752, RN · Apr 20, 2005

I don't think you should have to apologize to anyone. You weren't on duty, you told her that. You told her you were sick, and she still persisted - which was totally rude and inconsiderate to YOU. Obviously you looked sick, if you were leaning against the desk to avoid passing out.

I think your DON should apologize to you, not the other way around!

Hope you're feeling better now.

flashpoint · Apr 20, 2005

CMS requires that all patient complaints be resolved. As the CNO of my facility, it's the responsibility of either myself or our Director of Quality and Risk Management to write follow-up/apology letters to assure that they're appropriate and don't contain language that creates liability for us.

More than anything, I think it is ridiculous that management is wasting their time following up on things like this...sure if I had been on duty I would deserve some sort of discipline (like getting fired!), but I wasn't even on the clock! I was wearing sweats and a hospital gown, so it should have been obvious that I was not on duty. I know how distressing it can be to have a sick loved one...maybe this woman didn't even think about that...just recognized my face and that was it!

I wish I had the option of getting health care somewhere else...the nearest hospital is 75 miles away, so I am kind of stuck.

Going to go talk to the DON tomorrow. I may write a letter explaining that I am sorry that I was unable to help the woman, but still explain that I was ill and was not on duty. I guess I can apologize for anything that she felt was rude...

Dixielee, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2005

:angryfire I would write a letter to the DON explaining the entire situation and have a copy for your file. I would NOT however, write a letter to the idiot who made the complaint. You were clearly NOT on duty, and since the complainer was probably in better shape to track down the nurse she needed, SHE should have done so from the onset. I have been a nurse long enough and have seen nurses have to put up with enough crap, that I will no longer take anything like this from administration. I have left jobs on principle before and this would certainly be one of those times if push came to shove. YOU have nothing to apologize for, nothing. And NO, the customer is NOT always right. Many times they are dead wrong, and we need to stand up for ourselves or it will continue to escalate.

I read an article this morning about increasing physical attacks on health care workers, law enforcement, fire fighters and paramedics. I think a big part of the responsibility for this is management who is so far removed from the real world they are blind to what we are facing. We have to work with drunks, drug crazed whackos and people who take no responsibilty for themselves, yet we are supposed to put our lives at risk to protect them. We are doomed if management continues to not only allow this abuse but support it.

Thanks, I enjoyed my rant, but I need a new keyboard now!

Edited to add links to articles about abuse of workers...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3197788.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4458479.stm

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 20, 2005

I'd be half-tempted to write an apology saying "I'm sorry that i was so busy with my own dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, cough, fever, congestion, that i wasn't able to violate HIPAA regulations to tell this person where her granddaughter was".
.

EXCELLENT. really, excellent.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 20, 2005

There is no way that I would compromise my self-respect and write that letter. I would just have to tell the DON that I would face what ever discipline they had in store or I would quit.

I hope you're feeling better.