Unassisted birth on GMA this morning!?

Belinda-wales, RN · Jun 12, 2008

America - Land of the free - except when it comes to the birth of your child then is land of the pictocin, legs in stripps, epidural, epies and a normal healthy baby force feed formula because its not breastfeeding every three hours.

What do women really get when they birth in hospital - not even a specialist nurse could be a new grad looking after the labour reading the strip first time they get a specialist trained in obs near them is when the whites of the babies eyes are showing quick epise that alfull pushing up from the rectum alot of shouting push and that it.

MIcrunchyRN · Jul 9, 2008

I personally hate seeing threads that attack homebirthing or even UC mama's. I personally know a few UC mama's and many of them have a far better grasp on how to manage their labor/delivery and prenatal care than many residents I"ve seen.

I think its unfair for GMA to put a segment up that has a physician trying to scare the pants off all its viewers, especially when they leave out how dangerous it can be to go and have the baby in the hospital (not just for baby but for mother.)

I agree with whomever said why can't women be charged when they have elective C-Sections and something goes wrong with, mother or baby? The births in the hospital are not always all they are cracked up to be.

epiphany · Jul 9, 2008

I personally know a few UC mama's and many of them have a far better grasp on how to manage their labor/delivery and prenatal care than many residents I"ve seen.

You're not kidding there. I'm sharing my births right now with a resident, and let me tell you.. lochia? what's that? Anterior shoulder? why does a baby have an anterior shoulder? moulding? no idea. I'm not kidding no idea that you can't just yank the baby out nilly willy. I shudder at the stuff she doesn't know. I heard on the phone the other day triaging a term woman who had diarrhea. She had no idea that diarrhea is a sign of labor. She told the woman she had indigestion. Woman says: are you sure? she said: I'm a hundred percent sure! take some antacid. click.

I wouldn't let that woman deliver my kittens!

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Jul 9, 2008

Reading this thread makes me more and more thankful for the hospital I am precepting at. Almost no epi's, low c-section rates (and one of very few hospitals left in CA that you can have a VBAC), very few vag checks....we had a home birth come in and no one batted and eye, the police were not called in on the midwife...in fact, she works for the hospital as a childbirth educator. Although I plan to have my children at home, I would not have any reservations with having a baby at this hospital if I had a true medical need.

The topic of this thread was not about whether or not women are "nuts" for having UC, but how sad it is that the medical community at large (and attitudes of calling women nuts for having UC) has driven women to having UC

danissa, LPN, LVN · Jul 10, 2008

epiphany, you had a good point with your last thread, but you were talking to med staff, not a midwife, thats the difference there.

I've been a midwife for a good while, but I've been a midwife in the NICU for a lot longer.

THATS the reason I think unassisted birth at home is foolhardy, THATS the reason I would not have delivered at home, neither will my grandbabies.

Birth trauma is devastating.

Birth trauma caught on time can be salvageable , with the right intervention.

Birth trauma with prolonged resuscitation, with not the most experienced staff available at that moment, can be devastating, for all concerned, for always.

Why go there.

If you work in a NICU, you see the wee ones who, even after being born in hospital, have no chance due to such trauma. I know it's always like a lottery, but why take that extra chance, why not be where the best option is, just in case?

missjennmb · Jul 10, 2008

I had 2 of my 3 children at home, unattended. I learned CPR and every bit of knowledge that I could have possibly thought to learn, or had a direct entry midwife able to convey to me (or that of other homebirthing women) I spent the entirity of my first pregnancy and a large part of my second doing nothing but learning and asking and measuring. I even had care with an ob/gyn both times and while I did the research and followed each path planning to give birth in a hospital both times, in the end, I felt safer and felt my child was safer at home. I loved the bond that it brought between my first daughter and I, compared to my son's birth. I truly and honestly with all that I was at the time, felt that it was the very best option for both myself and my daughter. In no way did I feel that I was making a less safe choice, based on my options.

I work in a hospital now (I basically review charges for the respiratory therapy dept) while I work my way through nursing school. In the past 24 hours, we had 3 babies die on us between the NICU and the ER. While I don't regret the choices that I made or the start to life my daughters have both had, I can't help but think that, given what I know now, how REAL the complications truly are and how real death is... I don't know that I would have the strength to go through it again. I am new to all of this though... and I feel so heavy with the deaths of these three infants on my mind... it does feel as though I gambled and won, when these women did everything right and they lost.... I haven't tears enough for how sorry I am for them...

I chose to birth the way that I did because I felt I had no choice. I firmly believe that women NEED to be supported and treated as the decision maker in their care, so that they/we do not feel as if our choices are black and white, because right now, in many places, it IS very black and white. I was "fired" by my OB because I refused a scheduled cesarean and the notice came ON MY DUE DATE.

Its a sad society we live in when women are treated like children and feel their only option is to obey or rebel. I'm not saying thats the reason that all women UC, because many feel it is a spiritual and emotional calling, but for me, it was a conclusion we came to because we felt that our options were taken from us based not on evidence based research but on insisting on "the old ways" in some cases, and in others, simply a political/legal move having nothing to do with the best interests of the patient.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Jul 10, 2008

If I was pregnant right now I'd give birth at home. I worked in OB and know/have seen the problems and perks of having a hospital birth. I'd just as soon do it myself. I've been a patient many times. I have a once in a lifetime opportunity to give my child their best start, and I trust my judgement more than I trust a bunch of strangers.

That said, after watching "The Busines of Birth" I would have no problem having a midwife like that involved, but midwives aren't available in the sticks where I live. Damned if I'm going to the big hospital an hour away to be treated like a piece of malfunctioning equipment. I did a preceptorship there and 90% of the women who labored were given Pitocin, most or the 10% left were advised that it would likely be needed if they didn't progress quickly. Over 50% of the lady partsl births I witnessed required treatment for postpartum hemorrhage- a little Pitocin just to make sure. The babies were taken to the nursery for 2 hours observation after birth, naked under a warmer, and parents were not allowed in. I understand why, especially with parents that go into it with fewer clues than most, and the risk of liability. For my situation, there is NO WAY I'm going to allow that kind of abuse.

Hospitals are a business, and are run like one.

epiphany · Jul 10, 2008

epiphany, you had a good point with your last thread, but you were talking to med staff, not a midwife, thats the difference there.
I've been a midwife for a good while, but I've been a midwife in the NICU for a lot longer.
THATS the reason I think unassisted birth at home is foolhardy, THATS the reason I would not have delivered at home, neither will my grandbabies.
Birth trauma is devastating.
Birth trauma caught on time can be salvageable , with the right intervention.
Birth trauma with prolonged resuscitation, with not the most experienced staff available at that moment, can be devastating, for all concerned, for always.
Why go there.
If you work in a NICU, you see the wee ones who, even after being born in hospital, have no chance due to such trauma. I know it's always like a lottery, but why take that extra chance, why not be where the best option is, just in case?

And yet intelligent women are making the choice NOT to. I spent the rest of my life after my birth wishing that I could have had the knowledge and the guts. The chances of something happening is small, yet we have to do everything we can to make sure it doesn't happen even at the risk of living with a pyschologically traumatic experience that lasts a lifetime? If there is flu going around I'm not going to stay indoors. If there's an HIV epidemic, I'm not going to stop having sex. If there rampant TB somewhere Africa, it's not going to prevent me from taking a trip there one day. I'm just going to take the necessary precautions, and go on with my life. At some point, people have to live as if it's not a birth trauma about to happen. As much as there is tragedy in newborns births, there is a life worth living from a gratifying personal accomplishment, when you do what you believe is right inspite of the Big Guy telling the world you're crazy. The need for the human spirit to be loved and to be undaunted cannot be reigned in by the self professed gods of ACOG.

Further, I'm not convinced that birth traumas are entirely not an iatrogenic phenomena. Fear and anxiety is what produces bad outcomes. Fear and anxiety is the particles of air in the hospitals. Not to mention residents who has never heard of a plexus injury let alone learn how catch baby properly.

I hear your fear, too, and you seem really sincere, and it is unfortunate that we cannot have the best of both worlds - that you can have a supported natural birth and a completely equipped back up support "just in case". So, mothers are having to choose and what's surprising the industry is that mothers are choosing not to have their bodies and spirits manhandled by the system. So you can talk till you are blue, but without acknowledging the importance of this simple human need, you're just doing what everyone on your side of the argument is trying to do. You're waving a blade of grass at the world and trying to convince us it represents the entire meadow.

epiphany · Jul 10, 2008

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20000122/ai_n11740895

Take a look at this incident in the hospital right across the street from me in 2000. At first glance, you may think this has got to be an isolated incident - he must be the only Md who has carved his initials of a mother's abdomen after a c/s. But what amount of abuse must this doctor have committed before he got the cajones to CARVE HIS INITIALS IN THE PRESENCE OF THE ENTIRE SUPPORT TEAM IN THE OR AND NOBODY JUMPED HIM! And what kind of a hospital environment this must be that allowed this person to exist on their floor?

mommy2boysaz · Jul 11, 2008

epiphany, you had a good point with your last thread, but you were talking to med staff, not a midwife, thats the difference there.
I've been a midwife for a good while, but I've been a midwife in the NICU for a lot longer.
THATS the reason I think unassisted birth at home is foolhardy, THATS the reason I would not have delivered at home, neither will my grandbabies.
Birth trauma is devastating.
Birth trauma caught on time can be salvageable , with the right intervention.
Birth trauma with prolonged resuscitation, with not the most experienced staff available at that moment, can be devastating, for all concerned, for always.
Why go there.
If you work in a NICU, you see the wee ones who, even after being born in hospital, have no chance due to such trauma. I know it's always like a lottery, but why take that extra chance, why not be where the best option is, just in case?

I totally agree that birth trauma is a terrible thing! However, as a L&D nurse for 11 years, I have witnessed the majority of issues stem FROM things that we (nurses, doctors, doctor's orders) have done!

The argument against homebirth seems to always circle around the fact that there is no OR if a crash CS is needed to save the baby. In all my years, I can honestly say that I have only witnessed maybe 2 or 3 CS's that were that urgent. I am from a rural hospital and from 5pm-7am and on weekends, there is no OR staff or anesthesia in house anyways! Our goal is to be able to get the baby out in 30 minutes but that is usually not possible after-hours. Most homebirthers could get to the hospital within that time frame and a good midwife would call ahead and have the OR staff on stand-by.

I just believe that most of our hesitancy about the safety of midwife assisted homebirths, comes from fear and that must be allayed. People need FACTS. The facts say that our precious babies are safer in the care of their mommies, daddies, and midwives, than in hospitals with busy doctors. Just my :twocents: !

Belinda-wales, RN · Jul 16, 2008

In the UK home birth with a midwife - nurse or direct entry - is activly encouraged by the Govenment and the Medical community.They are trying to raise the numbers. Why would two countries who are brothers in arms and have a deep and historic history be so distant on birth - one reason and one reason only birth makes a lot of doctors rich in the usa.- nothing to do with birth trauma or safty dont kid your selves hard cash is what it is all about.

missjennmb · Jul 16, 2008

unfortunately, for all of our technical advances and our place as one of the more medically advanced countries in the world, we have a lot of problems. There is absolutely no reason that the infant mortality rate in the USA should be so much higher than countries that are not as well known for their medical advancements.

This thread is a prime example of what is wrong, in the US. We work off of fear, instead of fact, like the PP's have said. As long as we continue to do that, and not look at outcomes and alternatives to the current route, we will continue to have problems.

Why are we not trying to model countries like Iceland, Japan, Singapore, Norway, etc? I'm not saying they're perfect, but on a list of infant mortality, Sweden has 2.75 deaths per thousand while the USA has 6.3. That means that 4 babies will DIE for every thousand born, just because they were born in the USA and forced through our current medical model for childbirth. Its sickening.

I'd have to really scour the data to see exactly what the causes of death are, but I can guarantee the knife happy cesarean monster and pitoci-candy are high on the list.

It would be great to have hospital births without having to risk being a statistic. Or better yet, make it actually plausable to get licensing and community support for birth centers and educated birth choices.

I know we would like to think that we can "be safe" in the hospital and that just because we're surrounded by technology and physicians we will all be fine, but thats simply not the case. We need to make sure that people understand the risks of pitocin and epidurals and that they do not have to fear childbirth. This would take more than a nurse or CNM though...this would take a social movement on a very large scale that is loud enough to be heard over those that are comfotable with the "old ways".