Ticked off a Chaplin today

RFWB · Oct 7, 2008

Not to excuse poor behavior, because I'm sure the Chaplain, being both a PROFESSIONAL and a CLERGYMAN, probably could've found a more constructive way to deal with his anger AND get his point across. BUT.....is it possible that this chaplain had a prior personal or clergy relationship with the patient? I know that if I had built a relationship with this patient and no one had called me to tell me they were actively dying, i would be hurt and angered. Perhaps he was grieving on a PERSONAL level and it had more to do with that than being "slighted" as a professional?

Just a thought. People act out in unpredictable ways when they are grieving - especially if they cannot take an active part in the final stages of a death. Sounds like this guy was transferring some anger.

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

Keeping in mind I'm Catholic....

If Father Dingbat comes up and starts trying to get into it with you again, tell him "Mrs. X was my patient, NOT YOU."

I had a problem about 2 months back, pt was in a bad way, dying from CHF/COPD, we couldn't get any IV access, so no fluids / TPN -- I mean, the patient was what I call "coolin' and poolin'" -- the legs were getting cold, the blood was beginning to settle in the buttocks, etc. Thank GOD the family didn't want anything but comfort measures, because it would have been completely futile.

In comes a family member's preacher -- we've got chaplains, but it's not uncommon for individual family member's pastors to come and offer comfort. Usually they are unfailingly kind and helpful to the pt/family.

Except for Preacher X.

He comes in to pray with the family (pastor for one of the granddaughters), while I'm turning the pt, trying to keep her comfortable -- she was aware we were there, but no longer verbal. He demanded to know when she'd been fed last, and starts trying to get a cup to fill with water. More worried that he's going to give my pt something to drink and choke her to death, I quietly tell him she can no longer swallow, and we're just keeping her comfortable.

Preacher X goes off. He accused me AND THE FAMILY of starving the person to death, with the pt still at least semi-conscious and the family in the room! He starts yelling that I'm a murderer, that the family's killing their matriarch, etc. The family comes apart, crying, my pt starts acting distressed, and I hit the button and told the US I needed my charge NOW. I didn't lay a hand on him, but I got about 2 inches off his nose and told him if he didn't leave the room I'd have security remove him, and I would be filing a complaint with whoever his superior was. He told me his only superior "is God" and he continues to yell we're committing euthanasia, and proceeds to tell us we're all going to hell. I hit the button again as the charge came thru the door and told the US to call for security.

He got ejected from the hospital, and I had to spend a solid hour calming the family and the pt back down (and myself). I think that's about as close as I've come to hitting a person in anger since childhood.

hbgwan, LPN, LVN · Oct 7, 2008

"power" trip, "power" trip...

don't feel bad. seriously.

allnurses Guide · Oct 7, 2008

I had a very badly confused pt who would not sit. She would pace for HOURS and HOURS. She just couldn't turn herself "off". It was pitiful.

Finally, at last, she she did it! She sat! Yippy!

Glory hallelujah!

But she sat down in a chair in the first row of the Tuesday morning Catholic Mass.

I sat next to her to keep her company and encourage her to rest (her legs were soooo swollen).

The service was just about to begin, when the priest tells me this poor woman has to leave!

I told him she hadn't sat for nearly 12 hours (NO LIE) and she obviously wanted to be there.

He got annoyed and started to argue... Catholics only, blah blah... I said "I'm letting her sit"... and that's what we did.

I later get told by my charge that I have to keep the "disruptive pt's" out of Mass.

My pt was NOT disruptive. She might've looked a little scary, but WHO CARES????

I wanted to kick that priest's butt.

I was just soooooo mad. Like God wouldn't want my dear patient there just because she wasn't Catholic!

Sometimes the people who are supposed to guide us in what is right are the worst offenders toward their fellow man.

The chaplain who had a hissy over not being called made me think of my experience, just because I sometimes think they don't anyone ruining their show.

When that chaplain wasn't called, his "show" was cancelled.

I could be wrong, but it just seems I've seen more egotistical clergy, than I have not.

mama_d, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

I guess I'm blessed (pun intended :) ) to have all wonderful pastoral care where I work at. They are called per protocol with all codes and deaths, to be available if needed for family. I work at a Catholic facility but they are open minded enough to have chaplains of various faiths along with more contacts within the community who are willing to come in if a specific need is required (seriously, we even have a Buddhist monk available). Additionally, they are the ones who coordinate with MTS (the area transplant service) and fill out some of the paperwork with expirations.

It's probably a little different at a largish hospital though than at a LTC, since we have chaplains on the grounds 24/7.

CHATSDALE · Oct 7, 2008

the problem is that when someone doesn't act right we have a tendancy to paint everyone with the same brush

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

Then at the end of my shift, a very P.O'd Chaplin comes storming through the doors, wondering why no one called him to let him know the resident was actively dying OR when the resident passed away. I told him the family declined Chaplin services when I asked at the T.O.D; and then Chaplin interrupted my explanation and said I should have called anyway so he could at least bless the body before it was removed. The family declined though!! I tried to tell the Chaplin that there was nothing in her chart to indicate I needed to do this, but he was not interested in listening and he turned around and left.
No wonder I stopped going to church. What are the protocols at the nursing homes and hospitals you work at? Does the Chaplin come visit all the deceased whether they want it or not, or only if family and or resident wishes? Is the Chaplin obligated or something to bless a body?

Absolutely not. The Chaplin has no right or obligation to overstep a patient's or family's spiritual choices. In fact such a thing is unethical.

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

I think that you would, above everything else, wish to honor the wishes of the patient. If he/she is a religious person and would want his/her body to be blessed after death, then those wishes should be honored.

Let's face it, many religious people have offspring who turned away from the religion they grew up in, and maybe are hostile or disdainful of it. They shouldn't be able to interfere with the religious wishes of their aging parents, in my opinion. In other cases the parent might have converted later in life to a religion that their children disagree with.

So I think this chaplain has a point, even if it wasn't delivered in the most diplomatic way.

pielęgniarka, RN · Oct 7, 2008

OMG, I would absolutely honor any patient requests to be blessed. Unfortunately I am not a mind reader and if indeed this was a desire that the deceased had verbalized to the chaplin I had no way of knowing it. There was nothing in writing.

I think that you would, above everything else, wish to honor the wishes of the patient. If he/she is a religious person and would want his/her body to be blessed after death, then those wishes should be honored.
Let's face it, many religious people have offspring who turned away from the religion they grew up in, and maybe are hostile or disdainful of it. They shouldn't be able to interfere with the religious wishes of their aging parents, in my opinion. In other cases the parent might have converted later in life to a religion that their children disagree with.
So I think this chaplain has a point, even if it wasn't delivered in the most diplomatic way.

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

OMG, I would absolutely honor any patient requests to be blessed. Unfortunately I am not a mind reader and if indeed this was a desire that the deceased had verbalized to the chaplin I had no way of knowing it. There was nothing in writing.

Maybe, then, your facility needs to have a meeting with area chaplains and revise your policies to make sure patients requests are honored. If there was a breakdown in communication here, then communication needs to improve to avoid this sort of misunderstanding in the future. That would be a constructive and professional response to the situation you described.

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

I teach RCIA, and there's such a thing a "baptism of desire" -- it means if you want to be baptized but there's no available priest, your desire is sufficient for the sacrament to be "real." Now obviously, that's for folks who are in the "plane going down, here comes the ground" kind of situation, but I also think that if a person spiritually desires Last Rites and for some reason doesn't get them physically, the spiritual desire is enough for the sacrament to have occurred. I just think God's smart enough to know what the person wanted, and take the faith as enough.

My 2 cents, anyway

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2008

I thought it wasn't called "last rites" anymore, but "anointing of the sick".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anointing_of_the_Sick_(Catholic_Church)

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/heal2.html

As far as blessing the body, I thought that was usually done at the funeral.