RFWB

And please, as I already posted.....don't let the "fast" option seduce you.......this is a profession in which knowing what you need to know kind of can't be FAKED. If you forget something from your business administration class when you get to your first corporate job, chances are you can fake it until you have the time to look it up and recall. That's sort of not the case in nursing. I'm about 4 months into my first job on the floor, and while I did very well in school, I still feel like i'm playing catch up. Even if the one year accelerated programs look good to you on paper, you really may be so rushed to cram it all in that it effects your retention. I thought "oh yeah, sure, I'm a great student and I can cram this into a year and do well"....I'm the model of the type of student that should be succesful in these programs, and by all standards of evaluation I was.....but it was still too much to learn too quickly to really have a high level of retention and understanding.....and that was just the LPN. I can imagine that a BSN would be far more difficult to make meaningful in such a short time. Ok I'm off my soapbox now. Good luck, and REALLY think through your choice - better to do it WELL than to do it QUICK.

You know, here's something else to think about.... I have a BA in music. I looked into an accelerated BSN, but realized that it would take me a year just to get the prereqs. out of the way before I could even start since I didn't have any real science background. I didn't like that idea, I wanted to be WORKING asap - so I did my LPN. I'm pretty competent and I do well academically. I went to a VERY tough LPN school with very high standards. I was in the top of my class. Here's the problem though - even though I am VERY strong academically - it all went so fast that I didn't retain as much as I'd like. And it has NOTHING to do with effort (I worked my BUTT off), or with quality of instruction - my school/curriculum/instructors were TOP NOTCH and are known for the excellence of their program. But there's only SO MUCH you can cram in at such a break-neck pace and really truly retain it. I'm now looking forward to doing my RN because I feel like having the LPN behind me will really prepare me to soak up as much as I can of the RN program and REALLY retain it. I say this because the accelerated BSN's move VERY fast and cram ALOT in...similar in PACE to my LPN program, but I'm sure much more in depth in terms of scope. I just have to wonder if it isn't better to take a little longer to finish an ADN and really ABSORB it rather than rushing through an A-BSN and rolling the dice re:retention. I'm really leery of doing the accelerated route now even though it would be scads shorter for me - after my experience in a one-year-to-licensure program, I'd opt for doing it the BEST way rather than simply doing it the FASTEST way. Just some food for thought. Good luck!

I graduated from the most recent class at central, almost 6 months ago now (the next class is getting ready to graduate I think this month), so I'm assuming that my recent experiences are still pretty valid. I can remember having to give two group presentations. One, at the VERY beginning of the program in what was called the "Adult Learning Seminar". The ALS was a quick introduction to the program at central that included study skills, time management tools, etc. I guess it was sort of useful just in terms of getting all of us, as a class, used to the idea that we were focusing our lives pretty intently on an academic goal for an entire year. The project wasn't difficult and was designed to help students come out of their shell a bit. The other project was a role playing exercise in patient education. It was useful, and some groups even made it alot of fun. You WILL have to get over your nervousness about public speaking - as a nurse, you will talk to patients, families, doctors, etc all day long. It's not the same as giving an address to a group...but still. It's not a HUGE part of the program, but it does happen. I will say that there were other classmates that were nervous like you....they really just jumped in and took the plunge, and were fine. You can do it too. :) In hindsight, I really look at my year at central as a TOTALLY transforming experience. In one short year you become a professional. You can use the experience to transform many aspects of your life - I dropped 30 pounds, got into great shape, and really learned that I can take charge of my life and transform it into something that I'm proud of. You can use this experience to get over your fears of speaking in public....or any number of things. Good luck!!!!!!

Haha!!!!! About that certain "Pharm teacher"....you're right, NO ONE will forget her!!!!!! I used to jot down the amusing things they all said up at the top of my notes during class - I have the most amzing lists of quotes EVER!!!!!! Amazing teachers....who occasionally said some truly HYSTERICAL things. And here's an interesting tid-bit, since you brought up the RN thing - we were told that they were in the process of trying to start an RN bridge program right there at the school that would allow current students to continue on for their RN and would allow past students to bridge in smoothly. The administration did tell us that they were hoping this would happen in the next few years - they shared it with us as a real potential option for our class (i'm the most recent graduating class, i think the next class behind us finishes this month). Who knows if and when this really will get off the ground, it was hardly announced to us officially - but keep your eyes open, you may actually get your wish. :)

Thought I could help answer some of those questions, although I'm a little late and you may have already made your decisions regarding CSPN. I'm a recent grad. I also live in the area the school is located in. It's as "safe" as any metropolitan area is. You're there during the day, and it's a busy area. As long as you're not walking around with $100 bills hanging from your pockets, you're probably fine. The closest we ever came to having any "incidents" were some "colorful" folks walking around the outside of the school. The staff handled security VERY well (there is a full-time security watchmen there when school is in session, watching the entrances and the parking lot). I never felt unsafe. I mean, I'm also a native New Yorker, so maybe that's why! But there's really nothing to be scared of in that area. Also, re: not failing.......sure fire advice. STUDY. Period. Study your butt off. Do absolutely EVERYTHING the instructors tell you to do. Simple enough. You CANNOT skip the reading. You CANNOT skip the clinical practice. You MUST study EVERY NIGHT. That pretty much sums it up. You don't have to read for hours on end - but I wouldn't advise going a night without opening a book. It sounds like a lot, but after the first few weeks, you get used to it. While i was there, it seemed like it would never end. Now, in hindsight, it seems like it just flew - a year after I started, I'm a nurse. It's kind of mind-boggling. Good luck in whatever you choose to do. My own personal advice though - CSPN is kind of a treasure. If you are serious about becoming a nurse and can knuckle down and do the work, you won't regret it.

Ok, so I see this is a sort of old thread and you may have already made a decision by now....but I had to throw in, so to speak. I'm also a recent grad from Central - class 152, graduating last october. I can also verify that the education was FIRST RATE. Very thorough, very relevant, and prepared me VERY WELL to enter the workforce. I passed boards with flying colors on the first try and was working two days after my license number posted - I had job offers before I was out of school based on the reputation the school has in the community. It's a TOUGH school - but it should be. They're training you for such awesomely important work, and it shouldn't be taken lightly. If you REALLY, seriously want to be a good nurse - go to central. Let me know if you have any questions. I'm happy to answer them - I had doubts before (and sometimes even during!!!!) my time there, but after all is said and done and I've seen grads from the other schools entering the workforce with me, I'm SO happy with my choice.

Ya know, if you're an RN that doesn't see the difference, then you are my new best friend. I've encountered FAR too many RN's who will spend an entire shift reminding me of my scope of practice like they're defending their territory. So it's a careful balance to strike - i'm not interested in being told my scope - I KNOW it already, and most likely better than THEY do. I actually find that I'm often asked to do something OUTSIDE of my scope of practice far more than i'm told NOT to do something that is within it. I have to know the difference just to protect myself, especially in this culture where employers want everything they can bleed out of you, every shift. Hence the reason why I'm so quick to point out the differences. Luckily, the RN's I work with on a REGULAR basis are for the most part GREAT and could care less about the initials on my badge...they just know that I'm busting my butt to become a good nurse. And while i'm "new", I'm not so new to be unaware of the differences in classroom nursing and real-world nursing. I understood that after my first day of clinicals. I know I'm worth just as much as any other nurse, RN or LPN, on the floor (and in some cases, MORE, but that has everything to do with me being conscientious and thorough rather than the lpn vs. rn thing). And that "critical thinking" delineation is SUCH CRAP. If LPN's can't "think Critically", you tell me how I get thru every shift managing 30+ LT pts. Difference between "Day and...apples", indeed.

You know, it's funny, because I think we're probably actually saying more or less the same thing, we're just coming at it from different angles. I agree with 99% of what you're saying. I think from my perspective, it comes down to differences of education and experience. I don't have years of experience to draw from yet, I have only my education. Which was EXCELLENT, I'm proud to say....but a full year shorter than an RN's. I get REALLY frazzled when LPN's try to state that they have the same education as an RN - THEY DON'T. PERIOD. I know, people will say that lots of the RN program is fluff (much like the arguement in the BSN vs. ASN threads)...but there's a lot of "stuff" that DOESN'T get covered in the same depth in LPN school as it does in RN. I'm bridging into my RN and the stuff that I'm learning as I start to see the difference between the two programs is REALLY proof of that. Maybe experience is the great equalizer. Maybe a few more years under my belt would help to narrow that gap. I don't know, I'm not there yet. As of right now, I see what was taught in my LPN courses, I see what is being taught in my RN courses, and I can see and appreciate the difference in depth and scope between them. I have to wonder how informed a person is if they refute that. On the job (ESPECIALLY in LTF's) I can see how that difference might not translate as obviously. And for the record, I'm with you on the care plan bunk. When they're used primarily for justifying billing or as one more form that covers the facility/caregivers A$$, they're worthless. When they're REALLY genuinely used to help crystallize thoughts on the best options of care for a patient (and not just "Oh crap I have to come up with a Dx to keep state happy"), I find them helpful. Again, maybe that's just because i'm still green. I'll let you know in a few years. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be an LPN. Check out 99% of the posts I write, they're usually me yelling at somebody else for down-talking LPN's. BUT.....i think a big part of being a vocal advocate for "LPN respect" if you will is also realizing and respecting the differences in scope. I try to pay attention to both sides of that coin. Thanks for the banter. This was thought-provoking. A good answer to 3rd-shifter off-night insomnia. Peace.

There's not alot of objective data to support it? Read your state BON's nurse practice act. I know in Ohio it's filled with *LOTS* of "objective evidence" re: LPN scope of practice vs. RN. I don't want to split hairs with you man, but again, the seemingly "cosmetic" difference comes to tasks when delivering bedside care. Yeah, like i said above at my facility the RN floor nurses deliver the same care as the LPN's. In my case, I'm also IV certified, so technically I can do almost anything that those RN's can do - TASK-WISE. There is still a certain level of assessment that MUST be done by an RN - and i'm grateful for that, because I'm a new nurse and I DON'T have the training that an RN has. Certain changes to care plans, etc - require an RN. I just think it's foolish when LPN's say "I'm the same as an RN". No, actually you're NOT. Likewise for the STNA's/PCA's who try to present themselves as nurses (which happens A LOT where I work). Those aides THINK they understand the rationale behind a nurse's actions, but in reality they don't. I find it's the same with a great many LPN's who think they are "equal" to RN's. It's demeaning to all sides when people don't understand/respect their limitations. Respecting my scope and my limitations doesn't mean I can't be interested in bettering myself, and it certainly doesn't make me any LESS of a nurse- it just means that I'm aware of where I am right now. There IS a documented legal difference in scope of practice. There IS a difference in scope, breadth, and content of education. It might not be apparent from watching two staff nurses work down a hall. But it's there. And I pity anyone who tries to convince the state surveyor's/BON/malpractice attorney's that those differences are just "cosmetic". PS as a side note: I had a pt just last night say to me "You're easily one of the best nurses I've seen here, and i've been here almost 10 years....you're an RN, right?". She was shocked when she found out I was an LPN - didn't believe me and asked to see my badge. We laughed about it, and I was flattered, but before I left I teased her and said "what, all the GOOD nurses automatically HAVE to be RN's?". Sad that that myth keeps getting perpetuated. There are good and bad nurses at all levels. I find that the best ones are the ones who understand and respect the differences.

ABSOLUTELY. The "LPN's are the same as RN's" idea is just a preposterous as the "PCA's are the same as LPN's" idea. A lot of overlap in terms of tasks, but each one is as different from the other as can be when it comes to actual responsiblity and scope. Each level of caregiver needs to be appreciated for what they offer. It's a very UNSAFE practitioner that doesn't understand the differences in scope between us.

You know, I have to say I get a little miffed when I read threads like this. Declaring an entire profession "useless" or "pointless" isn't just a hypothetical conversation. There are REAL PEOPLE (who also happen to be REAL NURSES, with a slightly different scope) doing the work you deem as pointless, and it's a little tiresome to hear this discussion over and over. Here's the difference between a PCA and an LPN...a LICENSE. And about a year worth of intensive, DIFFICULT training. And with that license and training, the responsibility to use NURSING JUDGEMENT to make determinations for the care of our patients, as only a LICENSED care-giver can do. If you see "no difference" between what an LPN and a PCA can do, you FRIGHTEN ME because you are missing something crucial. Many of the tasks may be the same - I work in LTC besides RN's who do the EXACT same job (in terms of TASKS) that I do. The difference is in SCOPE. Nursing is not about TASKS. It's about assessment, it's about utilizing judgement based on TRAINING. I can teach a chimp to insert a foley or pass meds. If you think that's all nursing is, you're missing the point. And I wish folks would think twice before they declare my profession "pointless". If you are in a situation where you can pursue your RN directly, good for you - this is not the case for all. I've started as an LPN and I'm a better nurse for it - when I DO become an RN, I will have a wealth of experience and perspective that many nurses do not have. But if you don't yet know enough to respect and appreciate ALL levels of care-givers for their unique place in the culture of healthcare, you have A LOT to learn before you can assume the responsibilities of an RN with any effectiveness. I pray you gain that perspective, and sooner rather than later. Good luck to you.

I'm wondering (and I'm LEGITIMATELY wondering, I'm not just saying this to be snarky or argumentative :) ) what experiences you have that prompt that statement, and how recent those experiences are. I say this because I'm a recent grad LPN and I've seen many more hospital positions for LPN's then I expected here in the cleveland market - again, including several at CCF main campus. I agree, there are far MORE positions in LTC, but my experiences in the last few months would argue that your statement about "LPN's being limited" to LTC, on the whole, is untrue.

UGHHH!!!!! You just summed up one of my biggest pet peeves. I'm a brand new LPN in a long-term facility. The facility is very big on promoting nurses as part of the management staff - in fact, our officials titles are not "RN" or "LPN" but "RN/LPN supervisor". EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US!!!! Well even the fancy title on our nametag doesn't do much, let me tell you, and it drives me crazy. My NA's generally come on and just do their thing (or NOT, frankly, depending on the person). They rarely check in with me, and never really seem interested in what I have to say. When I give them an assignment or let them know about a particular pt's condition, they look at me like I have two heads and give me attitude like i'm trying to make more work for them. Not ALL of them are like this, some are GREAT - but the majority give me major 'tude. It's frustrating, because I can't work effectively if the other team members are doing whatever they like. I know I sure can't get through my med pass if both of my NA's have just independently gone off on break without telling me. That leaves me the choice of getting behind on my HUGE med pass to answer call lights and bring people urinals or of letting pt's sit in their own mess for 30 minutes while I pass meds. Neither are great options. I'd love to be able to say that it serves the aide right then for having to do a total linen change on the messy pt. that they neglected when they could have prevented it by getting to their call light - but that makes the pt suffer, and i just can't do that. I'd love to change it, but being a brand new nurse in a brand new place doesn't leave me much leverage for changing a culture that's been in place FOREVER. I have no problem with standing up and being assertive - except that then you start the war with the NA's and your life becomes HELL. Definitely a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Is it really like this everywhere?

I think the decision between LPN and RN really has to be based on YOUR scenario and what is best for you. If you are getting your STNA first, you might have a decent income and a flexible work schedule to get you through nursing school. Is it in your best interest to go right into an LPN program and get to work as a nurse, making a nurse's wage, and then go back for your RN? Anyone who says that it is a waste of time to get the LPN first is really just plain uninformed, honestly. There are bridge programs that will give you an accelerated standing in a RN program after you complete your LPN, so the time spent in LPN school is not wasted. You really need to speak with some academic counselors and see how long it will take you to complete the RN vs. the LPN, what prerequisites you need to take, etc., and then make your decision based on those facts. I transitioned into nursing from another career. I have a bachelor's degree in a non-healthcare field. I still chose to start off as an LPN. I got a job right out of school working 3 days a week (fulltime) and making $23/hour. I'm in a perfect place to continue on for my RN because I'm making excellent money, have a work schedule that will allow me to go back to school, and have access to tuition assistance from my employer to get my RN. It's win-win any way you look at it. Also - while alot of hospitals in Cleveland are not hiring LPN's, the rumor that Cleveland Clinic has done away with their LPNs is untrue. Three of my classmates from LPN school were just hired at the main campus in the last month, one even on a specialty floor (neuro). I'm entertaining a part-time offer there to supplement my full-time job elsewhere. Competition in hospitals is stiffer, but there ARE jobs to be had out there. And jobs in long-term, homecare, offices, etc, are readily available - every single one of my close to 40 classmates that have been seriously trying to find work have gotten jobs since we graduated in october. If you decide to go the LPN route, look into Central School of Practical Nursing in downtown cleveland. They are HIGHLY regarded, and I can tell you first hand that the education was far superior to the other programs I've seen. They tell you over and over about how well thought of their program is by area hospitals and facilities, and at first it sounds like hype. But I can tell you first hand that I've gotten interviews and job offers based on the fact that I'm a central grad. At my facility, I was introduced to the rest of the staff as a central grad....they all ooo'd and ahh'd and were impressed. They're aren't kidding about the reputation, and it's well deserved. It's a tough school with tough standards, but when you get out you'll be an excellent nurse. Really think about what YOU want out of your choices, and what's best for YOUR circumstances. Look into ALL your options, and don't listen to the nay-sayers....many of them are not well informed. Good luck!!!!

I just finished school and started working as an LPN about 2 months ago. I spent the last 10 years in a completely unrelated career. You should share what you've heard with your son, but be sure to paint it for what it is - unsolicited advice from an unfamiliar, and not necessarily reliable, source. I have to tell you, there are some aspects of nursing that I'm finding to be pretty unsavory and even a little surprising. But I'm not stupid, I researched the career I was transitioning into, and part of me expected some of what I'm getting. There are shifts when I think "what the H*ll have I gotten myself into?!?". Then I have a great experience with a patient where I feel like I've really made a difference because of the care I've given, and it makes it worth while. Those great moments are sometimes few and fleeting admidst the craziness and stress of the day-to-day reality of being a nurse. But I'm finding that they are SO worth it. Anybody who says that it's a dream is either working in a blissful fairyland hospital that I've yet to see or hear of, or they are painting you an overly pretty and simplistic picture. Conversely, anyone who says "don't do it" and tells you horror stories is probably pretty deeply displeased because of their own unrealistic expectations (see above!), isn't adjusting well to the realities, and probably shouldn't really be believed either. Don't let your son have a rose-tinted view of what he's getting into. We see people at their worst. The stress can create some very nasty trends in the environment and culture of the profession. It can be, and often is, ugly. But it is a GREAT thing that nurses do, and I think the hard-won rewarding moments are made more worthwhile by the hard parts. It's not easy. Nothing really worthwhile ever is. But it IS worthwhile. As long as your son really knows what he's getting into, he'll be cool.