They have spoken..

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Specializes in intensive care, recovery, anesthetics.

Another issue is diversity. It's just not good to have a large immigrant group from just one country, doesn't matter which country.

5cats

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Specializes in Nurse Anesthetist.
The problem with the discussions about visa availability for nurses is that we are talking about 2 very different groups here. On the one hand we have foreign nurses with no/very little experience since qualifying and on the other those with many years experience and post graduate training so it's like comapring apples and pears.

Now you talk about apples and pears out of nowhere.

As what I have said, and would like to say it again, Having a good experience in nursing practice is of course an advantage especially in recent years as quality of nursing education is somewhat deteriorating, thus employers will be searching for more experienced ones rather than newbie nurses. But again, graduates during my time doesn't necessarily have that experience you are talking about, though it counts. Before, nurses, once graduated from nursing school and had obtained a passing mark on NLE, and foreign exams, then by no means they wouldn't be hired by foreign employers. This speaks how exemplary the nursing training WAS in the Philippines years and years ago. But things had changed gradually and you know what I mean. Nurses nowadays, RN as he/she is, passed the foreign exams, but just as simple as I.M medicine administration, shivers and fails. Terribly bad and a big NO NO. This is because of lack of training and bad nursing education. I am not generalizing, but this is what weve seen recently and a big shame.

Apples and pears...Both are fruits...both are perishable.....and both are seasoned.

Apology for getting off-topic.:banghead:

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Again-you are making statements not backed up by evidence.

Have you been in a hospital in the UK? Have you lived in the UK?Do you know what nurses in the UK get paid? The cost of living here is phenomenal and I would think it is comparative to Ca-and about double that of NC.As for the standard of living-our houses are generally much smaller

Thing is the only nurses in the UK who get paid more because of where they live are those in London and the areas around it, and then it is only about 15% more than the national level.In the US if you live in a state where the cOst of living is higher then you get a higher salary and vice versa. Nurses salaries here are set nationally and you will not be aware that even though we are the largest group of employees in the National Health service we have no power and in the recent national restructuring of ALL NHS employees salaries nurses came out very badly, because to pay us similar amounts to say Physical therapists and pharmacists would be too expensive.The government have given us a pay rise which is less than the rate of inflation.

Compared to the police, firemen and teachers nurses have the lowest salaries ad it is far more difficult to move up the ladder as a huge percentage of nurses are on Band 5 salary scale (the lowest for a qualified nurse) and there just aren't enough band 6 and 7jobs within the system.If you want to be a manager then it's easier, but Clinical Nurse Specialists are being down graded to band 6s.

As for standards of care compared to the US-you really have no idea. Our hospitals have far fewer nurses,less equipment (eg scanners etc but also basic things like pillows!)and fewer support staff.On our acute stroke unit there are usually between 9 and 14 patients to each qualified nurse.There are only 2 toilets/bathrooms on the whole ward and the patients are in 6 bedded bays. I do not believe this compares favourably with most hospitals over there. In the majority of specialities our system is slower and less advanced than that in the US and there are fewer hospitals.Only the large regional hospitals will offer services such as Radiotherapy,Open heart surgery/interventional cardiology and neurology/neurosurgery.

The problem with the discussions about visa availability for nurses is that we are talking about 2 very different groups here. On the one hand we have foreign nurses with no/very little experience since qualifying and on the other those with many years experience and post graduate training so it's like comapring apples and pears.

The overall health of people in the UK is better, I have worked in many US hospitals where I have had all the issues you have described. Furthermore there is talk that the US is going to be adopting a new system similar to the UK. My past two raises have not kept up with inflation, 3% for two years while I pay $200/week for health insurance and I have a generous employer may pay much more.

While the pay is lower in the UK, there is a safety net. If one is out sick. For example, when I had chemo, I still had to work if I didn't work I lost my health insurance very scarey. When I had my children I only had 6 weeks off and this included anytime I took off before I had my baby. Many US positions only give 2 weeks vacation and limited sick time. Also nurses can be sued and loose all their savings if the committ an error, I believe in the UK you don't have to worry about that.

Too bad we couldn't do a swap for 6 months and compare how we would like a permanent change in Countries.

Last week I worked 60hours and I don't get overtime. My salary is not as high as one would think about the same if I worked in the UK. The cost of living in the Northeast is high. PM me and I can share what my living expenses are.

Other issue is that most hospitals looking to import nurse don't want to a preminum for highly experience nurses like yourself.

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My dear, I advise you not to be very happy at this point in time. You have a job offer. No doubt. But with crisis going on, no matter how many years your experience is, how deep is your nursing knowledge is,and how skillful you are bears nothing. again, Nothing. Job offers are getting cancelled. I've seen many already. So be careful of what you've been happily dreaming of. The road to USA is slippery at the moment. You might stumble and fall along the way.

Goodluck.

i wonder why you're advising her not to be happy about her job offer. until cancelled by her prospective employer,her job offer still stands at the moment. you can talk about recession and job cuts for all you want but there is no way you can predict that her job offer will get cancelled.bottom line is...if the hospital can maximise their profit of margin at the lowest cost possible,then obviously they will go for that.it just so happened that some hospitals find it cost effective to recruit abroad than locally.

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Now you talk about apples and pears out of nowhere.

As what I have said, and would like to say it again, Having a good experience in nursing practice is of course an advantage especially in recent years as quality of nursing education is somewhat deteriorating, thus employers will be searching for more experienced ones rather than newbie nurses. But again, graduates during my time doesn't necessarily have that experience you are talking about, though it counts. Before, nurses, once graduated from nursing school and had obtained a passing mark on NLE, and foreign exams, then by no means they wouldn't be hired by foreign employers. This speaks how exemplary the nursing training WAS in the Philippines years and years ago. But things had changed gradually and you know what I mean. Nurses nowadays, RN as he/she is, passed the foreign exams, but just as simple as I.M medicine administration, shivers and fails. Terribly bad and a big NO NO. This is because of lack of training and bad nursing education. I am not generalizing, but this is what weve seen recently and a big shame.

Apples and pears...Both are fruits...both are perishable.....and both are seasoned.

Apology for getting off-topic.:banghead:

yeah, like apples and pears,you've bunched all relatively new nurses into one basket. nursing training IS still exemplary in the Philippines.it just depends on which school you get your training from. i don't know if you still consider yourself a Pinoy Nurse judging from your user name here, but please...i beg you,you are not helping them with this kind of generalizations that you're doing.....

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i wonder why you're advising her not to be happy about her job offer. until cancelled by her prospective employer,her job offer still stands at the moment. you can talk about recession and job cuts for all you want but there is no way you can predict that her job offer will get cancelled.bottom line is...if the hospital can maximise their profit of margin at the lowest cost possible,then obviously they will go for that.it just so happened that some hospitals find it cost effective to recruit abroad than locally.

Reread the post because the original poster explains why...The employers can make job offers all they want to outsiders, but the fact remains that the prospective employee still has to undergo an extensive immigration process and ultimately get approved by the immigration officer not the prospective employer...All this poster is stating is the fact that they can the job offer can get cancelled and is giving the original poster heads up, which is something that needs to be done because obviously these schools aren't doing that...and why is that? They don't care all they want is the students money and it's obvious they will do anything in order to receive it...as you say "maximinze their profit" that's all they're looking at and nothing more...

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Reread the post because the original poster explains why...The employers can make job offers all they want to outsiders, but the fact remains that the prospective employee still has to undergo an extensive immigration process and ultimately get approved by the immigration officer not the prospective employer...All this poster is stating is the fact that they can the job offer can get cancelled and is giving the original poster heads up, which is something that needs to be done because obviously these schools aren't doing that...and why is that? They don't care all they want is the students money and it's obvious they will do anything in order to receive it...as you say "maximinze their profit" that's all they're looking at and nothing more...

"students" ? i think you're on the wrong thread,dear... he he he. i would assume that we are all responsible adults here and as such misswoosie knows what she's getting into.....again, the offer still stands until the employer decides to withdraw it. now,if we're talking about retrogression..then that's a different story.

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Specializes in Nurse Anesthetist.
i wonder why you're advising her not to be happy about her job offer. until cancelled by her prospective employer,her job offer still stands at the moment. you can talk about recession and job cuts for all you want but there is no way you can predict that her job offer will get cancelled.bottom line is...if the hospital can maximise their profit of margin at the lowest cost possible,then obviously they will go for that.it just so happened that some hospitals find it cost effective to recruit abroad than locally.

Again, I am just cautioning everyone not to be so eager in coming over to USA. It's hard to be happy, then all of a sudden happiness turned to sadness due to job offer cancellation. And job offers to cancel is not merely prediction. It's actually taking place now. Any nurses that are presently in USA, both americans ang foreigners can vouch for it.

With the financial crisis hovering USA, cost-effective measures for a hospital to do is for them to maximise their present manpower resources just like my facility is doing. To recruit nurses abroad or locally is completely out of the picture.

and YES. I am a full blown Filipino, in my system runs same blood as those of our katipuneros, facing realities without fear. Brave to talk what reality has to offer. This must be the attitude of true pinoys. I am not in any way trying to dash anyones dream. I too, got plenty of dreams before, but dreams that are ought to come true. I am a Filipino, and till now, I still have my flat nose on my face, and I'm proud of it.

Godbless you sir!

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Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.
i wonder why you're advising her not to be happy about her job offer. until cancelled by her prospective employer,her job offer still stands at the moment. you can talk about recession and job cuts for all you want but there is no way you can predict that her job offer will get cancelled.bottom line is...if the hospital can maximise their profit of margin at the lowest cost possible,then obviously they will go for that.it just so happened that some hospitals find it cost effective to recruit abroad than locally.

Can you explain why it was cheaper for the hospital to employ me than a nurse from the US?:confused:

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Again-you are making statements not backed up by evidence.

Have you been in a hospital in the UK? Have you lived in the UK?Do you know what nurses in the UK get paid? The cost of living here is phenomenal and I would think it is comparative to Ca-and about double that of NC.As for the standard of living-our houses are generally much smaller

Thing is the only nurses in the UK who get paid more because of where they live are those in London and the areas around it, and then it is only about 15% more than the national level.In the US if you live in a state where the cOst of living is higher then you get a higher salary and vice versa. Nurses salaries here are set nationally and you will not be aware that even though we are the largest group of employees in the National Health service we have no power and in the recent national restructuring of ALL NHS employees salaries nurses came out very badly, because to pay us similar amounts to say Physical therapists and pharmacists would be too expensive.The government have given us a pay rise which is less than the rate of inflation.

Compared to the police, firemen and teachers nurses have the lowest salaries ad it is far more difficult to move up the ladder as a huge percentage of nurses are on Band 5 salary scale (the lowest for a qualified nurse) and there just aren't enough band 6 and 7jobs within the system.If you want to be a manager then it's easier, but Clinical Nurse Specialists are being down graded to band 6s.

As for standards of care compared to the US-you really have no idea. Our hospitals have far fewer nurses,less equipment (eg scanners etc but also basic things like pillows!)and fewer support staff.On our acute stroke unit there are usually between 9 and 14 patients to each qualified nurse.There are only 2 toilets/bathrooms on the whole ward and the patients are in 6 bedded bays. I do not believe this compares favourably with most hospitals over there. In the majority of specialities our system is slower and less advanced than that in the US and there are fewer hospitals.Only the large regional hospitals will offer services such as Radiotherapy,Open heart surgery/interventional cardiology and neurology/neurosurgery.

The problem with the discussions about visa availability for nurses is that we are talking about 2 very different groups here. On the one hand we have foreign nurses with no/very little experience since qualifying and on the other those with many years experience and post graduate training so it's like comapring apples and pears.

Well said misswoosie, that's a fairly good summation.

My sister is an E.R. Nurse in the U.S., she has worked all over the country. We swap our experiences probably every week. She is shocked to find that things are WORSE NOW than when she worked here. The reason she left is because it was so bad in Britain believing it would be better over there, she was right.

Seriously, she is aghast at what we have to put up with, so am I.

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Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

It is not cheaper to bring a foreign trained nurse to the US than employ a nurse already in the US. Approx costs to bring a foreign trained nurse to the US is over $10,000 and the employer has to pay the same level as they would a US nurse they can not pay cheaper.

Can we please keep to topic

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Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.
It is not cheaper to bring a foreign trained nurse to the US than employ a nurse already in the US. Approx costs to bring a foreign trained nurse to the US is over $10,000 and the employer has to pay the same level as they would a US nurse they can not pay cheaper.

Can we please keep to topic

No-it would not have cost them anything like that to get me there (supposing they hadn't cancelled my job offer first)

This is what I was asking about

if the hospital can maximise their profit of margin at the lowest cost possible,then obviously they will go for that.it just so happened that some hospitals find it cost effective to recruit abroad than locally.

So if it's not cheaper, and there isn't a shortage of nurses in the US (as everyone here keeps saying) why have they done it in such vast numbers in the past? Surely it is cheaper to employ a US new grad than a foreign new grad?

I also thought that people had suggested that they were using foreign nurses as cheap labor and that the US nurses would not do the jobs for the wages being offered to foreign nurses.

This is what I find frustrating about allnurses- lack of consistency

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