These classes are nonsense

prairienp · Feb 1, 2011

Stay 1st tier or Ivy League.

Did something change in course requirements for dnp programs? Is there a suggestion that 1st tier and Ivy league do not offer the same course content? Please provide information as to which of these programs are not following the requirements to include the 2006 DNP essentials. I suspect the CCNE would like to revisit that program's accreditation.

CraigB-RN, MSN, RN · Feb 1, 2011

After reading this thread, I had to sit back and wonder.

1. The degree being offered is a Masters in NURSING not a Masters in Family Practice or whatever. Hence you need some nursing classes, including theory.

2. As a provider, you ARE an EDUCATOR. That should be what a large part of your role should be. Both to patients and other nurses. ( many NP's also function as academic faculty)

3. The arguments for NP's include the fact that we are NURSES

4. There is no standardization in any nursing program, at any level.

I know it's frustrating, and I can't make any comments on bad teaching, and bad course design. But remember that no matter what level your functioning as, we present ourselves first and foremost as nurses, not physicians or PA's. At all levels of education, there needs to be something that fosters nursing. I can see disagreements on the quantity and location of these classes, but the need is there.

elkpark · Feb 1, 2011

Did something change in course requirements for DNP programs? Is there a suggestion that 1st tier and Ivy league do not offer the same course content? Please provide information as to which of these programs are not following the requirements to include the 2006 DNP essentials. I suspect the CCNE would like to revisit that program's accreditation.

As far as I'm aware, those of us commenting in this thread are referring to existing MSN programs (I know that I am), not dnp programs.

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Feb 1, 2011

Did something change in course requirements for DNP programs? Is there a suggestion that 1st tier and Ivy league do not offer the same course content? Please provide information as to which of these programs are not following the requirements to include the 2006 DNP essentials. I suspect the CCNE would like to revisit that program's accreditation.

:confused: I don't understand your question. I am not suggesting that anyone is failing to meet CCNE standards. Someone asked how to be sure to get a good NP (not DNP specifically AFAIK) education, and I gave my POV. I am certain there are good 2nd tier schools, but I don't know of them by name. I went to a tier 1 school, it was fabulous and we didn't suffer all this fluff other people are complaining about. We had rigorous and fascinating course work taught by engaged experts. I loved it, and I'm a little sad its over to tell the truth.

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Feb 1, 2011

Would anyone mind actually listing these programs? I'm not sure what the 1st tier schools are for NP.
I'm also particularly interested in the direct entry NP programs that are not fluff. - would it be the same list and just finding the ones there that offered DE options?
Thanks!

I don't know if there is an "official" list. Those that come to mind are (in no particular order):

Yale

Columbia

Duke

UPenn

UCSF

U of Washington

UNC-Chapel Hill

Case Western

Rush

Hopkins

UM-AnnArbor

U of Virginia

Vanderbilt

I'm certain there are other great schools that I'm not familiar with. I went to one of those, but I will not say which of course. The best schools have a reputation to maintain and I think are always a strong bet. Good luck to you!

morte, LPN, LVN · Feb 1, 2011

I don't understand your question. I am not suggesting that anyone is failing to meet CCNE standards. Someone asked how to be sure to get a good NP (not DNP specifically AFAIK) education, and I gave my POV. I am certain there are good 2nd tier schools, but I don't know of them by name. I went to a tier 1 school, it was fabulous and we didn't suffer all this fluff other people are complaining about. We had rigorous and fascinating course work taught by engaged experts. I loved it, and I'm a little sad its over to tell the truth.

my perception of praire's comments is that he/she was reading a "away" after the stay...

regnart · Feb 1, 2011

Thanks, Linearthinker!

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Feb 2, 2011

You are welcome. You didn't ask, but her is my advice. Pick 3 that interest you and GO THERE. Meet faculty, talk with students. Doing this changed my mind. I was all set to go to MUSC b/c it was half the cost. Then I visited my school and fell in love. I knew I HAD to go there. Faculty are cream of the crop, but not so high and mighty that they won't have lunch with you and listen, with genuine interest, to your questions and interests. I interviewed at UCSF and knew before I left that I would never accept an offer. They were aloof and haughty IMO. I told them not to consider me, we weren't a good fit. I'd have been miserable. MUSC was cordial and professional, but the school I chose was collegial. I admired all my professors and classmates immensely, and support from all the ancillary departments was outstanding. In short, you have to go, even if you are going to be q distance student. Go, meet people, get a *feel* for it. Only then will you know if it is right for you. Grad school was really the best 2 years of my life. I don't hear that often, do you. Good luck, and enjoy the journey!

zenman · Feb 2, 2011

I don't mind telling which school I went to. I did a post-master's at Rush after doing a CNS program at Northwestern State University in Louisiana. They have a nice curriculum and I thought it was pretty good. Not perfect IMO but better than many others.

prairienp · Feb 2, 2011

I don't understand your question. I am not suggesting that anyone is failing to meet CCNE standards. Someone asked how to be sure to get a good NP (not DNP specifically AFAIK) education, and I gave my POV. I am certain there are good 2nd tier schools, but I don't know of them by name. I went to a tier 1 school, it was fabulous and we didn't suffer all this fluff other people are complaining about. We had rigorous and fascinating course work taught by engaged experts. I loved it, and I'm a little sad its over to tell the truth.

You are correct I was thinking DNP, but also have become frustrated with repeated allegations of fluff in NP programs. My point is that accrediation requires specfic essentails regardless of MS or DNP for FNP programs. They do not require "Standard" courses, they do have expectations for content for all programs that they accredit. FNP programs must have courses in pharmacology, health assessment, and physiology.

jkpowell23 · Feb 2, 2011

I think by 'fluff' they are referring to 'theory'. Not that the class is easy. Just that they find certain theory irrelevant to practice. And in many cases, I see their point. APA is of course, par for the course. However, APA structure is irrelevant when your subject is nursing theory that you do not happen to subscribe to.

I think in less academic terms, they are asking... "Do you subscribe to this theory crap or not? And if not, how do you feel about its place in graduate level nursing coursework as a requirement?"

Or maybe I'm just reading into the comments?

elkpark · Feb 2, 2011

You are welcome. You didn't ask, but her is my advice. Pick 3 that interest you and GO THERE. Meet faculty, talk with students. Doing this changed my mind. I was all set to go to MUSC b/c it was half the cost. Then I visited my school and fell in love. I knew I HAD to go there. Faculty are cream of the crop, but not so high and mighty that they won't have lunch with you and listen, with genuine interest, to your questions and interests. I interviewed at UCSF and knew before I left that I would never accept an offer. They were aloof and haughty IMO. I told them not to consider me, we weren't a good fit. I'd have been miserable. MUSC was cordial and professional, but the school I chose was collegial. I admired all my professors and classmates immensely, and support from all the ancillary departments was outstanding. In short, you have to go, even if you are going to be q distance student. Go, meet people, get a *feel* for it. Only then will you know if it is right for you.

I completely agree, and had a v. similar experience in "shopping" for my CNS program. I get the impression, from a lot of the threads here, that many people are pretty cavalier about choosing a graduate program -- they just apply to whichever program is closest to them, or quickest, or cheapest, or most convenient. I'm amazed at how many people here talk like there's no difference among graduate programs (or, for that matter, undergrad, pre-licensure programs) in nursing and it doesn't make any difference where you go to school -- that's just not true!