There's "no evidence" coronavirus survivors can't be reinfected, WHO says

Editorial Team / Admin · Apr 25, 2020

Admins stepping in now to ensure this topic doesn't implode.

As stated in a previous thread when members were going at each other one-on-one ...

Members have the choice to place posters on ignore
Please debate the topic. DO NOT quote an individual in order to make it a one-on-one debate
And, above all, please be respectful

If members continue to quote a post only to dissect it piece-by-piece and say, "you this and you that", thus making it a one-on-one debate ... it will not end well.

Please just debate the topic ... not each other.

Thank you.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 25, 2020

This is interesting.

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

Daisy4RN · Apr 25, 2020

When I first heard this is was based on a study from China. They said that they were not sure if it was the fact that people were being reinfected vs the virus going dormant and causing a later exacerbation of the dx. I think it is too early to tell until time goes on and further studies can be done.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-immunity-to-covid-19-really-means

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

Unfortunate, but not so surprising. I've suspected this for some time based on my own anecdotal experience, albeit, which combined with following published findings from China, Malaysia and South Korea, let's just say my spider sense was tingling pretty well.

This virus is certainly unforgiving and it's tentacles are going to be long in terms of impact both near and long-term.

allnurses Guide · Apr 25, 2020

According to this poll, and my anecdotal experience, 75% of people in our county agree with "Stay at Home" orders:

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/04/24/coronavirus-la-county-people-agree-stay-at-home-reopening-plans/

Quote
AP-NORC poll: Few Americans support easing virus protections
https://apnews.com/9ed271ca13012d3b77a2b631c1979ce1

Quote
The latest KFF Health Tracking Poll, released Thursday, found that 80% of Americans believe that "strict shelter-in-place measures are worth it in order to protect people and limit the spread of coronavirus."
Among Republicans, 61% agreed with this position. Just 38% of Republicans — and 19% of all American adults — view the measures as "placing unnecessary burdens on people and the economy" and "causing more harm than good."
https://americanindependent.com/gop-support-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders-donald-trump-social-distancing-poll-covid-19/

The poll: https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/kff-health-tracking-poll-late-April-2020/

Quote
Poll: Most Texas voters worry stay-at-home will end too soon
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/article/Poll-Most-Texas-voters-worry-stay-at-home-will-15225015.php

Quote
Large majorities of Americans back coronavirus restrictions, slower return to normal: POLL
In this week’s poll, 72% believe moving too quickly to loosen the stay-at-home orders is a greater threat to the country than moving too slowly, and 86% think social distancing and stay-at-home orders are responsible policies. And if restrictions were lifted tomorrow, some 80% say they are unlikely to go out to public places that are likely to draw crowds....
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/large-majorities-americans-back-coronavirus-restrictions-slower-return/story?id=70291873

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

4 hours ago, A Hit With The Ladies said:
I don't think most Americans care anymore. It's time to move on from this toxic relationship with Coronavirus-related news 24/7. People weren't worried constantly about getting the flu or SARS. It's time to make peace with the existence of Coronavirus. The "second wave" thing is inevitable because the premise behind preventing a new outbreak would be quarantining everyone until every single person on earth is Corona-free, as just that sole Coronapositive person could bring it right back. Life has to be restored back to normal at this point. If America and the world could keep running through the 80s and half the 90s with the HIV/AIDS pandemic, we can surely keep our normal lives while also invested in stopping Corona.

The virus really doesn't care, right?

Comparing SARS-COV 2 to HIV and SARS-COV 1 is applies and oranges. HIV was easy to avoid as infection required introduction into the blood stream (ie, sexual relations, needle sharing, transfusions before blood banks were tested. SARS-COV-1 was much more difficult to become infected with as didn't reproduce in the nasal pharynx and oral passageways like SARS-COV-2, . Also, thanks to active intervention and competence of the Bush Administration SARS -COV-2 was not left to fester out of control within our borders.

PS - Unemployment data is readily available on any number of state and federal websites, yes?

Daisy4RN · Apr 25, 2020

1 hour ago, HeartlandRN said:
The virus really doesn't care, right?
Comparing SARS-COV 2 to HIV and SARS-COV 1 is applies and oranges. HIV was easy to avoid as infection required introduction into the blood stream (ie, sexual relations, needle sharing, transfusions before blood banks were tested. SARS-COV-1 was much more difficult to become infected with as didn't reproduce in the nasal pharynx and oral passageways like SARS-COV-2, . Also, thanks to active intervention and competence of the Bush Administration SARS -COV-2 was not left to fester out of control within our borders.
PS - Unemployment data is readily available on any number of state and federal websites, yes?

I don't think it is fair to give Bush all the credit for the last SARS event. It was a combo of people from different countries, as well as those within our country IMO, putting differences aside and working together toward a single goal which was eradicating the SARS virus. Add to that the fact that this covid sars virus is far more virulent and easily spread (as you pointed out comparing the two SARS is not applicable) than the previous SARS. I am afraid that globally as well as within our own country that people/leaders have become so attached to their politics that they only see through that lens which makes it all but impossible to work together. If our leaders cannot work together, even and esp in the middle of a pandemic, we as a country are doomed (United we stand, divided we fall). Add the fact that nobody knows which news organizations are telling the truth, stretching the truth, are bias etc we the people are left in the dark. I am not sure any of them are working for we the people anymore.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636331/

Add the fact that there is still pending investigation into the WHO in the mix as well. But either way if they are now saying that there is no evidence regarding the reinfection that means no evidence either way. So I don't see how it is plausible/sustainable to keep 17 million (and probably more) home until months or even years that all this has a chance to be researched. We need a happy medium to keep the country going.

guest1146168 · Apr 25, 2020

17 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:
I don't think it is fair to give Bush all the credit for the last SARS event. It was a combo of people from different countries, as well as those within our country IMO, putting differences aside and working together toward a single goal which was eradicating the SARS virus. A
Add the fact that there is still pending investigation into the WHO in the mix as well. But either way if they are now saying that there is no evidence regarding the reinfection that means no evidence either way. So I don't see how it is plausible/sustainable to keep 17 million (and probably more) home until months or even years that all this has a chance to be researched. We need a happy medium to keep the country going.

SARS rapidly spread to over 2 dozen countries including the USA. W. Bush, as the POTUS was lead of the national response to contain it within our borders and he did that remarkably well, which you can do when you fill your cabinets with highly competent experienced people in an Administration serious about governing.

I haven't seen anyone suggest we keep over 17million people home for years.. What I'm seeing the medical experts say, and agree with, is we need to contain this by 1) immediately implementing mass testing so we even actually KNOW how prevalent it is and where and can make intelligent decisions about what is safe and isn't rather than guessing and hoping that God is on your side 2) when someone does test positive you immediately trace where they've been and who they had contact with (that's the containment component)

It is worth noting that the countries that HAVE been able to contain either before a full blown-outbreak (South Korea, Finland, New Zealand, Germany, Iceland) or afterward (China, France) accomplished it precisely through this test and trace method.

Not very difficult in concept but it does need to be coordinated between the Federal Government and the State Government, rather than just dumping it on the States and wishing them luck.

Daisy4RN · Apr 26, 2020

1 hour ago, HeartlandRN said:
SARS rapidly spread to over 2 dozen countries including the USA. W. Bush, as the POTUS was lead of the national response to contain it within our borders and he did that remarkably well, which you can do when you fill your cabinets with highly competent experienced people in an Administration serious about governing.
I haven't seen anyone suggest we keep over 17million people home for years.. What I'm seeing the medical experts say, and agree with, is we need to contain this by 1) immediately implementing mass testing so we even actually KNOW how prevalent it is and where and can make intelligent decisions about what is safe and isn't rather than guessing and hoping that God is on your side 2) when someone does test positive you immediately trace where they've been and who they had contact with (that's the containment component)
It is worth noting that the countries that HAVE been able to contain either before a full blown-outbreak (South Korea, Finland, New Zealand, Germany, Iceland) or afterward (China, France) accomplished it precisely through this test and trace method.
Not very difficult in concept but it does need to be coordinated between the Federal Government and the State Government, rather than just dumping it on the States and wishing them luck.

Bush received accurate info from the WHO. If our gov had received accurate info from the WHO as well as China we would also have a much different situation currently. Maybe we should be more concerned about closing the wet markets in China where these virus' continue to come from, or the lab, investigation pending, though I doubt we will ever find out. I think all people see the need to open with certain parameters based on regional numbers/issues. There are at least 17 million unemployed and probably some not numbered as well. It only makes sense to start getting people back to work in areas that are not affected etc. I said months to years bc if we wait for all the research to be completed that is how long it will be. Trump told the states to try to solve their problems on their own first before federal jumps in, the reserves in the Federal stock are for when the states run out, they should have their own and use it first.

guest1146168 · Apr 26, 2020

48 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:
Bush received accurate info from the WHO. If our gov had received accurate info from the WHO as well as China we would also have a much different situation currently. Maybe we should be more concerned about closing the wet markets in China where these virus' continue to come from, or the lab, investigation pending, though I doubt we will ever find out. I think all people see the need to open with certain parameters based on regional numbers/issues. There are at least 17 million unemployed and probably some not numbered as well. It only makes sense to start getting people back to work in areas that are not affected etc. I said months to years bc if we wait for all the research to be completed that is how long it will be. Trump told the states to try to solve their problems on their own first before federal jumps in, the reserves in the Federal stock are for when the states run out, they should have their own and use it first.

We've been through this already. POTUS received info via Americans from the CDC working within WHO last November, from HHS Azar in December, from Navarro in Jan, etc. Easily verifiable and citations have been provided over and over. This along with the well documented hierarchy of statements from President himself who was calling it all a hoax as late as the second week of March.

While my intent is not to upset you and grind axes. I'm also not going to reinvent history as doing so adds no value for any of us.

toomuchbaloney · Apr 26, 2020

There's no question, if there's indeed no functional immunity developed following infection, that humankind will have to learn how to live with it. In my view, that will not be a return to "normal" until we have a vaccine, an effective treatment, or the virus mutates to a less lethal version of itself.

We really really need fast and reliable testing.

guest1146168 · Apr 26, 2020

20 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:
There's no question, if there's indeed no functional immunity developed following infection, that humankind will have to learn how to live with it. In my view, that will not be a return to "normal" until we have a vaccine, an effective treatment, or the virus mutates to a less lethal version of itself.
We really really need fast and reliable testing.

Agree. Need to know the prevalence zip code by zip code and have the infrastructure in place for the testing AND for the tracing and containment. You don't drive blindfolded without GPS and you don't play Russian roulette with Daddy's pistol if you are expecting a happy ending.

Even then count me among the people that think the post Corvid19 world is going to look very different and only the fittest will survive. And I don't mean health wise. I mean agility to change and able to turn on a dime as never before.

Incidentally headlining that we're about to get the 3rd HHS Secretary in < 3years. Don't get me wrong; I can't blame anyone replacing Alex Azar but I'm thinking we can predict the next round of pass the buck threads.