The Supreme Court has overruled Roe v. Wade, the 1973 landmark decision establishing the right to abortion.

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subee, MSN, CRNA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired. Has 50 years experience. 4,140 Posts

1 hour ago, HiddenAngels said:

This is such an interesting point and not to add shade.

I don’t know if it’s necessarily ‘fringe thinkers’,  I honestly thought fringe thinking was relative.  I mean we all sway when we need to. 
 

But, more to this point on cult following or should we say perpetual cult following. It seems People will blindly follow someone or an idea and Whether they know it to be true or just don’t t care should be another all nurses post.  However do you think it has something to do with lack of responsibility and accountability,  or having to do with power tripping, or as you posted something more serious but not readily diagnoseable ‘is that a word’.  If the latter then we as humans certainly have a responsibility to study that more in depth. 

When did fringe thinking become a benign term:)?  I should be more specific .  Fringe as in intolerant and unreasonable and willing to screw up their own loves in the name of dogma.  IMHO, it is similar to the 'stinkin thinkin" of addicts who trapped inside their brains.  I have worked with addicts in he past.  It just struck me that the guys who participated in the violence on 1/6 were unable to perceive the self harm they did to themselves.

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

4 hours ago, subee said:

When did fringe thinking become a benign term:)?  I should be more specific .  Fringe as in intolerant and unreasonable and willing to screw up their own loves in the name of dogma.  IMHO, it is similar to the 'stinkin thinkin" of addicts who trapped inside their brains.  I have worked with addicts in he past.  It just struck me that the guys who participated in the violence on 1/6 were unable to perceive the self harm they did to themselves.

Ohhhhhh.  I def thought you meant something else.

I thought you meant the people who neither swing with the minority or majority opinion.  In that case I was saying it is my belief that fringe is a relative term.

Yes I see now, that is something different, but then it does seem to follow that line of thinking of people who don't want to be held accountable or take responsibility but would rather in the name of _______ blah blah blah, would be willing to act out or speak out recklessly or carelessly.  

I've had 2 pts that I took care of from the 1/6 attack.  I can't say his condition without possibly exposing him or possibly myself, but he did say if he could, he would do it all over again. (just sad)

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

4 hours ago, subee said:

When did fringe thinking become a benign term:)?  I should be more specific .  Fringe as in intolerant and unreasonable and willing to screw up their own loves in the name of dogma.  IMHO, it is similar to the 'stinkin thinkin" of addicts who trapped inside their brains.  

You post very intriguing material.  Do you really think addicts are trapped inside their brains?

I haven't had much experience, I got floated a couple of times to detox units where I passed methadone and took patient's out for smoke breaks but nothing beyond that.  It was such an experience to see people from all different walks of life with that one flippin thing in common out of all things (oh and sports), but I thought the degree of addiction was much more than being trapped.  After all, if we're trapped, we just have to find a way out right?.  This seems to be something else, something else entirely.

But, you could mean trapped in a pavlov kind of way which I get too.  Unlearn the behavior, seems simple enough, but that's not it either.  I really do think it's something else there.

toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,953 Posts

4 hours ago, subee said:

When did fringe thinking become a benign term:)?  I should be more specific .  Fringe as in intolerant and unreasonable and willing to screw up their own loves in the name of dogma.  IMHO, it is similar to the 'stinkin thinkin" of addicts who trapped inside their brains.  I have worked with addicts in he past.  It just struck me that the guys who participated in the violence on 1/6 were unable to perceive the self harm they did to themselves.

Study what happened in Germany all those years ago... the people chose common enemies based upon the words of a leader they perceive as strong.

I don't think that people like Ginni Thomas are fringe thinkers.  Their cult behavior suggests less thinking and more believing. 

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Study what happened in Germany all those years ago... the people chose common enemies based upon the words of a leader they perceive as strong.

I don't think that people like Ginni Thomas are fringe thinkers.  Their cult behavior suggests less thinking and more believing. 

Yessssss

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Study what happened in Germany all those years ago... the people chose common enemies based upon the words of a leader they perceive as strong.

I don't think that people like Ginni Thomas are fringe thinkers.  Their cult behavior suggests less thinking and more believing. 

To take it a step further I believe some of these people are fundamentally very corrupt (nature/nurture IDK)  and wait to latch onto something or some idea to express and carry out their beliefs.  Is it calculated? Absolutely, so I won't give them a pass.  What they bank on, is the hope that we will absolve them of all responsibility because they were just following blah blah blah.  Def less thinking and more believing but that's what we're supposed to see.

heron, ASN, RN

Specializes in Hospice. Has 50 years experience. 3,347 Posts

4 hours ago, subee said:

When did fringe thinking become a benign term:)?  I should be more specific .  Fringe as in intolerant and unreasonable and willing to screw up their own loves in the name of dogma.  IMHO, it is similar to the 'stinkin thinkin" of addicts who trapped inside their brains.  I have worked with addicts in he past.  It just struck me that the guys who participated in the violence on 1/6 were unable to perceive the self harm they did to themselves.

Fringe thinking is neither benign nor malignant. It is, among other things, the exploration of ideas that are not generally accepted or even apparent to the majority. If you visualize a bell curve, fringe represents either end of it … we are the outliers.

There was a time when the notion of a representative democracy and all people being created equal was fringe thinking. Ditto the separation of church and state. Ditto informed consent and women being responsible for understanding and controlling their own healthcare. Ditto equal pay for equal work, equal rights for women as well as former slaves and indigenous people being full citizens of the republic, and on and on …

The fringe is, in large part, where completely new ideas, concepts, definitions and world views are generated. Some of them start making more sense to more people over time and eventually work their way into the mainstream. Some are silly, illogical or downright malignant and never get anywhere. A kind of “social brainstorming”.

The problem with right-wing extremist ideas, particularly fascist and dominionist ideas, is that their proponents don’t really want to subject themselves to anyone else’s critical thinking. They want to bully their way to the top of the bell curve and change it into a column with themselves at the top.

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

3 minutes ago, heron said:

Fringe thinking is neither benign nor malignant. It is, among other things, the exploration of ideas that are not generally accepted or even apparent to the majority. If you visualize a bell curve, fringe represents either end of it … we are the outliers.

There was a time when the notion of a representative democracy and all people being created equal was fringe thinking. Ditto the separation of church and state. Ditto informed consent and women being responsible for understanding and controlling their own healthcare. Ditto equal pay for equal work, equal rights for women as well as former slaves and indigenous people being full citizens of the republic, and on and on …

The fringe is, in large part, where completely new ideas, concepts, definitions and world views are generated. Some of them start making more sense to more people over time and eventually work their way into the mainstream. Some are silly, illogical or downright malignant and never get anywhere. A kind of “social brainstorming”.

The problem with right-wing extremist ideas, particularly fascist and dominionist ideas, is that their proponents don’t really want to subject themselves to anyone else’s critical thinking. They want to bully their way to the top of the bell curve and change it into a column with themselves at the top.

So thank you for this explanation 🤗

And now everyone else just throw our misunderstandings in the trash 🤣

I was kinda close tho..

toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,953 Posts

39 minutes ago, HiddenAngels said:

To take it a step further I believe some of these people are fundamentally very corrupt (nature/nurture IDK)  and wait to latch onto something or some idea to express and carry out their beliefs.  Is it calculated? Absolutely, so I won't give them a pass.  What they bank on, is the hope that we will absolve them of all responsibility because they were just following blah blah blah.  Def less thinking and more believing but that's what we're supposed to see.

Surely some are corrupt.  I know many people who were not fundamentally corrupt before this time... before Trump. Over time they have come to accept corruption because it's been well marketed to them.  Trump's unprecedented corrupt nature and  character tipped them into an upside down world.  Now some of them are making excuses for attempts to overthrow a presidency... all while claiming patriotism... like the patient who would do it again. 

I have argued before that it left a clear precedent and message for the corrupt when Nixon simply resigned disgraced by impeachment and then was pardoned for his crimes.  

There was a Senate judicial committee hearing on threats against election workers today. It seems there's evidence that in some localities threats against election volunteers and workers leads to resignation of the volunteers or workers. 

Senators Blackburn, Grassley (ranking member), Cruz and others spent all of their time on "whatabout" this crime or that crime... seemingly having no interest in discussing the threat to our elections as fearful officials leave their posts across the country to be replaced by believers in THE BIG LIE.

Despots don't retire quietly to the seaside. 

 

toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,953 Posts

1 hour ago, heron said:

Fringe thinking is neither benign nor malignant. It is, among other things, the exploration of ideas that are not generally accepted or even apparent to the majority. If you visualize a bell curve, fringe represents either end of it … we are the outliers.

There was a time when the notion of a representative democracy and all people being created equal was fringe thinking. Ditto the separation of church and state. Ditto informed consent and women being responsible for understanding and controlling their own healthcare. Ditto equal pay for equal work, equal rights for women as well as former slaves and indigenous people being full citizens of the republic, and on and on …

The fringe is, in large part, where completely new ideas, concepts, definitions and world views are generated. Some of them start making more sense to more people over time and eventually work their way into the mainstream. Some are silly, illogical or downright malignant and never get anywhere. A kind of “social brainstorming”.

The problem with right-wing extremist ideas, particularly fascist and dominionist ideas, is that their proponents don’t really want to subject themselves to anyone else’s critical thinking. They want to bully their way to the top of the bell curve and change it into a column with themselves at the top.

This is representative of my understanding and use of the word "fringe" as related to thinking.  It's not necessarily bad or good it's just outside the box of normal expected thinking. 

Our problem in this country right now is not fringe thinking,per se. Our problem is widespread acceptance of fringe thinking, leading to behaviors acting out those fringe beliefs in all walks of life. People from the local security guard to the congressman believe straight up lies and an increasing number of them are radicalized to believe that violence may be their only option to change things. The acceptance of the fringe that radicalized them means that some of our neighbors will excuse the behavior because they believe the same lies.  And their senators will say "whatabout" while those who don't believe in our elections will dismantle the checks and balances at the state and county level. 

All while their "conservative" activist court upsets legal precedent to create chaos and uncertainty.  

HiddenAngels

HiddenAngels

Has 8 years experience. 546 Posts

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

This is representative of my understanding and use of the word "fringe" as related to thinking.  It's not necessarily bad or good it's just outside the box of normal expected thinking. 

Our problem in this country right now is not fringe thinking. Our problem is widespread acceptance of fringe thinking, leading to behaviors acting out those fringe beliefs in all walks of life. People from the local security guard to the congressman believe straight up lies and an increasing number of them are radicalized to believe that violence may be their only option to change things. The acceptance means that some of our neighbors will excuse the behavior because believe the same lies.  And their senators will say "whatabout" while those who don't believe in our electing will dismantle the checks and balances at the state and county level. 

All while their "conservative" activist court upsets legal precedent to create chaos and uncertainty.  

Wow, I'm speechless (by choice) Good Job TMB

heron, ASN, RN

Specializes in Hospice. Has 50 years experience. 3,347 Posts

Lotta uppity women in white suits out there.

A good sign, I think.