The Supreme Court has overruled Roe v. Wade, the 1973 landmark decision establishing the right to abortion.

[Julie]

This final decision ends constitutional protection for abortion, returning the rights to state legislatures.

Quote

In a historic and far-reaching decision, the U.S. Supreme Court officially reversed Roe v. Wade on Friday, declaring that the constitutional right to abortion, upheld for nearly a half century, no longer exists.

Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending right to abortion upheld for decades

Do you think the Supreme Court made the right decision or gone too far?

[BeatsPerMinute, BSN, RN]

Just had this conversation today with a friend. We've been friends for a long time (since early to mid 2000s). We have very different backgrounds, beliefs, and experiences. 

She's liberal, agnostic, a lesbian about to get married again to another woman with kids, and is pro-choice. 

I am a middle ground - leaning conservative, Christian, a nurse, single, and pro-life. 

We both agree that this whole overturning Rode vs Wade thing is absolutely ridiculous and will cause more harm than good. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

And here we are:  A woman in Baton Rouge Louisiana who can't get an abortion with a fetus with no skull.  Doctors in La. won't do it because "acrania" is not on the list of acceptable abnormalities, so she will have to travel out of state.  This cruely is Mengele-like but it's certainly on the same continuusm.

Acrania does not appear on the state’s list of accepted conditions for abortion. But the state also has a broad exception for any “profound and irremediable congenital or chromosomal anomaly existing in the unborn child that is incompatible with sustaining life after birth in reasonable medical judgment.”

Two physicians must sign off on the anomaly. But Woman’s still said it would not perform the abortion. 

“In the absence of additional guidance, we must look at each patient’s individual circumstances and remain in compliance with all current state laws to the best of our ability,” said Caroline Isemann, a hospital spokesperson, in a statement.

That's not how some doctors have interpreted the law.

'They just won't function'

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

On 8/20/2022 at 4:30 AM, subee said:

And here we are:  A woman in Baton Rouge Louisiana who can't get an abortion with a fetus with no skull.  Doctors in La. won't do it because "acrania" is not on the list of acceptable abnormalities, so she will have to travel out of state.  This cruely is Mengele-like but it's certainly on the same continuusm.

Acrania does not appear on the state’s list of accepted conditions for abortion. But the state also has a broad exception for any “profound and irremediable congenital or chromosomal anomaly existing in the unborn child that is incompatible with sustaining life after birth in reasonable medical judgment.”

Two physicians must sign off on the anomaly. But Woman’s still said it would not perform the abortion. 

“In the absence of additional guidance, we must look at each patient’s individual circumstances and remain in compliance with all current state laws to the best of our ability,” said Caroline Isemann, a hospital spokesperson, in a statement.

That's not how some doctors have interpreted the law.

'They just won't function'

No doubt some dimwitted politican will ask why the child couldnt have surgery to fix the birth defect in the wound or after birth.?

Much like the assumption a sitting US politican asked about why an ectopic pregnancy cant be removed from the fallopian tube and implanted in the utterus. 

This is a travesty. won't stop abortion, will just mean more people die

[J.B.Chan, BSN]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:14 PM, Tenebrae said:

No doubt some dimwitted politican will ask why the child couldnt have surgery to fix the birth defect in the wound or after birth.?

Much like the assumption a sitting US politican asked about why an ectopic pregnancy cant be removed from the fallopian tube and implanted in the utterus. 

This is a travesty. won't stop abortion, will just mean more people die

I know this is an older thread- but GOD! These politicians are complete idiots. Wait until one of their daughters, granddaughters, nieces, etc., encounters an ectopic pregnancy or a fetal anomaly without options. That said, I am sure they'll crap their pants or pay someone under the table to "take care" of it.  I am so damn ashamed of how ignorant fools in this country (too numerous to mention) have taken women's reproductive rights completely away from them. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

15 hours ago, J.B.Chan said:

I know this is an older thread- but GOD! These politicians are complete idiots. Wait until one of their daughters, granddaughters, nieces, etc., encounters an ectopic pregnancy or a fetal anomaly without options. That said, I am sure they'll crap their pants or pay someone under the table to "take care" of it.  I am so damn ashamed of how ignorant fools in this country (too numerous to mention) have taken women's reproductive rights completely away from them. 

I guess the ignoramuses think that reproductive freedom only works only one way; the "right" to have a baby (like, who's stopping them?) as opposed to the right not to have a baby.

[SunCityInsPhysical, BSN, RN]

Hmmmmm......

I think we are so wrapped up in the daily drama that we're missing the real problem. 

Absolutely, we as educated Healthcare providers must respond in a timely and life supporting manner to treat life-threatening conditions. Historically that response has primarily been Life Saving and supporting.

Abortion is the antithesis of that mission. When we are asked,  expected or coerced to participate in non- life saving procedures that is a real problem for a majority of practitioners. 

There have been ethical debates over these issues for decades if not centuries. I think most of us got into this profession to save lives. I know I did. In over 35 years working in the operating room in level one trauma centers I've been party to many  Life-threatening emergencies.I have done my best to bring out the best outcome possible. 

Sometimes we don't have good outcomes, efforts arent enoughor choices have to be made. Lives are lost. Dreams of holding healthy much desired babies are dashed or the baby lived and we list Mom. Never downplay or deny that the team feels the loss. 

But given freedom of choice the percentage of providers will always choose life.

So that brings us to the Great Life or death Debate- Abortion.

What do we really believe about sex and procreation. If we compare ourselves to the animal kingdom we have a real problem. Don't we consider ourselves to be better than animals.

We sterilize our pets to prevent  unwanted pregnancies because animals do what Animals do.

 We pride ourselves on being the highest cognitive beings. If we are so smart, why is this still a problem after thousands of years of evolution?

Or do we accept the responsibilities for and the real consequences of our actions?

"Planned Parenthood" the No. 1 provider of abortions has been around since the 60's. They have FAILED to do mass education and encouragement of women whom they profess to care about and significantly reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies. WHY, Because they are in business to make money. 

No one, NO ONE, is talking about real planned parenthood. Let's begin with ABC's...Abstinence, Barriers, Contraceptives. 

Did I miss the 1960s Readers Digest national TV program similar to 'This is Joe's.....'  fill in the blank. How about a few 60 Minute exposes on Rape and incest. How about challenging us to be responsible, to use some self discipline, self restraint. Self-control.

Recent media, mostly men, and a few women commentators who feel (in order to keep their jobs) they have to spew the party line by supporting  this Right instead of questioning why men aren't shouldering their fare share of the responsibility. How many women (birthers?) how have been too brow beaten to join the Me Too movement,  and the woke mobs to see how  badly we've been brainwashed and rogeammed. Why aren't they speaking up and demanding RESPECT. To present a list of demands and band together and Just Say NO. To no longer dress and act seductively. To refuse to spread their legs. The media has given plenty of time to people in the street protesting. Even the LGBTQ.....are marching and demanding the 'right' to have unprotected sex whenever they want and the Taxpayer is expected to pay the bill for.

How did we get this way? Has anyone done a root cause analysis? Who is to blame? Who is responsible? It began with suffrage, we women started to own ourselves, but someone purposely hijacked the movement.

We are all RESPONSIBLE. We've failed. By virtue of apathy, complacency, we have let the Trojan Horse release its army of stealthy infiltrators to undermine and systematically destroy what was a reasonably healthy nation.

Can we, will we fight back? Will we as women take back our power? Or will we continue to devolve?

I hope we can wake up and recognize this cancer that is destroying us. 

I think we can do this. 

How about more talk about physical, educational, financial, emotional maturity. Having an education/job that will support yourself and your children.

No one, NO ONE, is talking about men's role in this problem. No responsibility for rape,  sex trafficking, addiction. ALL of the fall-out lands upon women. 

Everywhere you look, sex is being promoted. Clothing, makeup posturing for photos, music. Now, certain groups are trying to groom children as young as kindergarden.

Where, when did we stop respecting ourselves? 

We as Nurses can have an impact on the future of our health and our children's health. 

I hope to see more discussion about supporting and educating women about self respect, and take our power back. 

Again, we must always respond appropriately with medical care and intervention to, medical emergencies like ectopic pregnancies, life threatening conditions to women and physical damage caused by rape and incest and miscarriages.

But, I feel strongly that we can and should educate and hold ourselves as women and as Healthcare providers to high standards.

It saddens me that we are still struggling with this dilemma. 

At 70, I've retired from active nursing, I'm no longer in the hot seat. 

You who continue to carry the torch and shoulder the load, professionally, ethnically and spiritually are in my prayers. 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 8:24 PM, toomuchbaloney said:

I disagree.  It IS interference to have to travel out of state to obtain a relatively simple medical procedure.  

There are a number of important things not explicitly in the constitution; marriage, privacy, executive privilege, the filibuster, separation of church and state, the right to vote... I'm sure there are others. 

Why shouldn't medical procedures be convenient? Didn't you say without interference? Making the services inaccessible or prohibitively inconvenient is a tactic that's been in use for a long time.  Do you agree with that interference?

Of course abortion shouldn't be looked at in the same way as typical birth control. They aren't at all the same.  Typical birth control works to prevent pregnancy in some fashion.  Abortion is a termination of something, in this case a pregnancy. Data shows that good access to affordable and effective birth control results in fewer abortions. Unfortunately, too many women live in areas with poor access to affordable birth control... contraceptive deserts, if you will. 

Yes, there are good ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy and, IMV, our efforts and priorities should be on supporting women by improving overall access to affordable birth control.  The efforts should be focused on low income counties and regions where vulnerable women do not have the resources to travel or spend extra time trying to obtain essential reproductive services.  We should not be limiting access to needed care, especially for vulnerable women. 

 

[heron, ASN, RN]

So … how many unwanted babies have you adopted?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

2 hours ago, SunCityInsPhysical said:

Hmmmmm......

I think we are so wrapped up in the daily drama that we're missing the real problem. 

Absolutely, we as educated Healthcare providers must respond in a timely and life supporting manner to treat life-threatening conditions. Historically that response has primarily been Life Saving and supporting.

Abortion is the antithesis of that mission. When we are asked,  expected or coerced to participate in non- life saving procedures that is a real problem for a majority of practitioners. 

There have been ethical debates over these issues for decades if not centuries. I think most of us got into this profession to save lives. I know I did. In over 35 years working in the operating room in level one trauma centers I've been party to many  Life-threatening emergencies.I have done my best to bring out the best outcome possible. 

Sometimes we don't have good outcomes, efforts arent enoughor choices have to be made. Lives are lost. Dreams of holding healthy much desired babies are dashed or the baby lived and we list Mom. Never downplay or deny that the team feels the loss. 

But given freedom of choice the percentage of providers will always choose life.

So that brings us to the Great Life or death Debate- Abortion.

What do we really believe about sex and procreation. If we compare ourselves to the animal kingdom we have a real problem. Don't we consider ourselves to be better than animals.

We sterilize our pets to prevent  unwanted pregnancies because animals do what Animals do.

 We pride ourselves on being the highest cognitive beings. If we are so smart, why is this still a problem after thousands of years of evolution?

Or do we accept the responsibilities for and the real consequences of our actions?

"Planned Parenthood" the No. 1 provider of abortions has been around since the 60's. They have FAILED to do mass education and encouragement of women whom they profess to care about and significantly reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies. WHY, Because they are in business to make money. 

No one, NO ONE, is talking about real planned parenthood. Let's begin with ABC's...Abstinence, Barriers, Contraceptives. 

Did I miss the 1960s Readers Digest national TV program similar to 'This is Joe's.....'  fill in the blank. How about a few 60 Minute exposes on Rape and incest. How about challenging us to be responsible, to use some self discipline, self restraint. Self-control.

Recent media, mostly men, and a few women commentators who feel (in order to keep their jobs) they have to spew the party line by supporting  this Right instead of questioning why men aren't shouldering their fare share of the responsibility. How many women (birthers?) how have been too brow beaten to join the Me Too movement,  and the woke mobs to see how  badly we've been brainwashed and rogeammed. Why aren't they speaking up and demanding RESPECT. To present a list of demands and band together and Just Say NO. To no longer dress and act seductively. To refuse to spread their legs. The media has given plenty of time to people in the street protesting. Even the LGBTQ.....are marching and demanding the 'right' to have unprotected sex whenever they want and the Taxpayer is expected to pay the bill for.

How did we get this way? Has anyone done a root cause analysis? Who is to blame? Who is responsible? It began with suffrage, we women started to own ourselves, but someone purposely hijacked the movement.

We are all RESPONSIBLE. We've failed. By virtue of apathy, complacency, we have let the Trojan Horse release its army of stealthy infiltrators to undermine and systematically destroy what was a reasonably healthy nation.

Can we, will we fight back? Will we as women take back our power? Or will we continue to devolve?

I hope we can wake up and recognize this cancer that is destroying us. 

I think we can do this. 

How about more talk about physical, educational, financial, emotional maturity. Having an education/job that will support yourself and your children.

No one, NO ONE, is talking about men's role in this problem. No responsibility for rape,  sex trafficking, addiction. ALL of the fall-out lands upon women. 

Everywhere you look, sex is being promoted. Clothing, makeup posturing for photos, music. Now, certain groups are trying to groom children as young as kindergarden.

Where, when did we stop respecting ourselves? 

We as Nurses can have an impact on the future of our health and our children's health. 

I hope to see more discussion about supporting and educating women about self respect, and take our power back. 

Again, we must always respond appropriately with medical care and intervention to, medical emergencies like ectopic pregnancies, life threatening conditions to women and physical damage caused by rape and incest and miscarriages.

But, I feel strongly that we can and should educate and hold ourselves as women and as Healthcare providers to high standards.

It saddens me that we are still struggling with this dilemma. 

At 70, I've retired from active nursing, I'm no longer in the hot seat. 

You who continue to carry the torch and shoulder the load, professionally, ethnically and spiritually are in my prayers. 

 

 

I thought Nancy Reagan died.

[toomuchbaloney]

12 hours ago, subee said:

I thought Nancy Reagan died.

The shtick remains little changed or influenced by data and evidence.

[SunCityInsPhysical, BSN, RN]

Google Abortion statistics and do a deep dive going back yearly to 1965. 

How about a national challenge to reduce the numbers this  coming year. 

Folks do a New Years resolution to not drink or smoke or other.  This is more important.

Lets Challenge ourselves to take back control over our bodies, our money. our votes. Put that money toward education and lifting ourselves up. 

 

[heron, ASN, RN]

34 minutes ago, SunCityInsPhysical said:

Google Abortion statistics and do a deep dive going back yearly to 1965. 

How about a national challenge to reduce the numbers this  coming year. 

Folks do a New Years resolution to not drink or smoke or other.  This is more important.

Lets Challenge ourselves to take back control over our bodies, our money. our votes. Put that money toward education and lifting ourselves up. 

 

So … how many unintended babies have you adopted, educated and lifted up?

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, SunCityInsPhysical said:

Google Abortion statistics and do a deep dive going back yearly to 1965. 

How about a national challenge to reduce the numbers this  coming year. 

Folks do a New Years resolution to not drink or smoke or other.  This is more important.

Lets Challenge ourselves to take back control over our bodies, our money. our votes. Put that money toward education and lifting ourselves up. 

 

Let's challenge ourselves to make birth control widely available and affordable for all vulnerable women.  Let's fully fund social programs that support, feed and educate our poor and vulnerable children.  Let's fully support social programs that support single mothers in terms of paid time off work, low cost childcare and preschool. 

Those are the ways that we reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies...fewer unwanted pregnancies result in fewer abortions.