I recently became the victim of harassment in the workplace, only to watch my nurse manager cater to the physician as he belittled me and used profanity towards me in her presence.
Backstory: Two weeks ago, a surgeon asked me how his patient was doing. I reported to him that she was very weepy during the day and had mentioned being upset with him because she came out of surgery with 3 JP drains and she had not been expecting that. He marched into her room and began yelling at her. He told her she had better change her attitude because he saved her life and he would stop making rounds on her completely if she didn't start thanking him every time she saw him. I was present during this interaction and said This needs to stop. NOW†and walked out of the room. He told me Don't you ever walk out while I am speaking†and walked off. I did report him to my supervisor, but did not make an occurrence report to human resources, which I am now deeply regretting.
Yesterday, this same surgeon told me he was writing up a discharge order for one of the patients. I told him her blood pressure had been running high and rattled off her morning vital signs from my report sheet. I was waiting in line to pull medications from the Pyxis and he asked me when the patient had received PRN medications last. I replied I'm not sure because I'm not in front of the computer, but I've been here since 7am and I haven't given her anything and it's now 8:15am.†He was sitting at the computer and replied me Well log on and tell meâ€. I knew he was trying to throw his weight around, so I replied I am about to pull medications so I can't do that right nowâ€. He became angry and demanded to speak to my supervisor.
While we were speaking to her, he insulted me, called me names, and used profanity towards me. To my absolute surprise, my nursing supervisor kept making comments like Yes, sir. I agree with you sir.†and She will be spoken toâ€. She not once interjected or disagreed with him. I feel that her very attitude serves to only inflate the ego of this physician and makes his behavior acceptable. He literally made me go to my supervisors office and his argument was she didn't do what I told her to do when I told her to do it!â€. After noting that she was just agreeing with everything he said, I said I'm done with this conversation, I have to go take care of my patients†and began to walk out. The physician replied You're a nurse, you don't get to decide when we're doneâ€.
I may be a nurse, but I am also a very real person with very real feelings. His commentary serves to explain his treatment of me. To him, I am beneath him and am even unable to decide when I no longer want to participate in a hostile exchange. I was upset at how he was treating me, but even more upset that my nurse manager did not intervene. The message she sent across is that I may be important, but he is MORE IMPORTANT to the facility because he is a surgeon. My nurse manager was practically agreeing with him that I needed to wait until he ended the conversation.
This lack of support for nurses should be highly frowned upon and should not be tolerated. I may not have gone to school for 8 years, but I do have an education, a mouth, and a brain and I can make my own decisions! I am more than JUST A NURSE. As nurses, we get caught up in patient care to the point that small interactions such as my original encounter with him go unreported. We must stand up for ourselves and our profession and report incidences such as this one to protect ourselves. We can no longer tolerate doctors making us feel inferior or demanding that we stop performing our responsibilities to cater to their needs.
I am now left with only a few witnesses of our original encounter as my ‘proof' and have been ‘fired' from taking care of any of this surgeons patients in the future. I did nothing wrong, but all of his request were fulfilled and I am left waiting the response of human resources, from which I hear, will do nothing. We need to change this and demand to work in environments in which we are valued and supported instead of freely belittled and harassed. Report all of these incidences to protect yourself!
It address the general attitude in our profession that we have to do what doctors say when they want. Was there a power struggle ? Yes. But even those in my own profession seem to think I should have automatically lost because I was summoned by an almighty Doctor.
It address the general attitude in our profession that we have to do what doctors say when they want. Was there a power struggle ? Yes. But even those in my own profession seem to think I should have automatically lost because I was summoned by an almighty Doctor.
Total shame.
Lost? This isn't a contest. That's what I'm trying to say.
This doc cursed you out. I said in my first post you should have reported him. He deserves to be disciplined for that.
If I was your NM I would have been on his ass for that so quickly your head would spin.
If another nurse, RT, PT acted like this, my response would be the same.
I'm a hot head. I get angry fast and hard, yet forgive easily.
I've learned to temper my temper it in the workplace. It takes time to do that, especially dealing with personalities you don't "get", nor like.
There's a hotshot doc I absolutely loathe. He is a huge money maker for my old hospital, and ground breaking in his field. He is also a total turd to nurses and docs who aren't quite so exalted as he. He did not abuse with the cursing and yelling, but he knew how to verbally cut. He never broke me, and he tried. I took care of the patients well in spite of him. I was the better person, and I never rose to his low hanging bait. This conversation is the first time I've thought about him in months.
I was told it was forwarded to the head doctor that handles internal behavioral issues with doctors. My nurse manager told me today the doctor was wrong and she also reported him for his yelling and use of profanity. She didn't really say anything to me other than she agreed with me.
I do understand I need to step back and look at my own role. It probably would have gone down very differently had we not already exchanged words earlier. I'm my mind I've already forgiven him because we all make mistakes and I personally would handle the situation differently if I ever end up in a similar situation.
Thanks to all the nurses for commenting. It's nice to have a lot of eyes on a situation so I can see it from different view points.
I was told it was forwarded to the head doctor that handles internal behavioral issues with doctors. My nurse manager told me today the doctor was wrong and she also reported him for his yelling and use of profanity. She didn't really say anything to me other than she agreed with me.
I do understand I need to step back and look at my own role. It probably would have gone down very differently had we not already exchanged words earlier. I'm my mind I've already forgiven him because we all make mistakes and I personally would handle the situation differently if I ever end up in a similar situation.
Thanks to all the nurses for commenting. It's nice to have a lot of eyes on a situation so I can see it from different view points.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
How he treated the patient and nurse was just wrong. Ridiculous that the charge nurse didn't actually take charge in a serious and professional manner. Their is no justification for his actions.
It address the general attitude in our profession that we have to do what doctors say when they want. Was there a power struggle ? Yes. But even those in my own profession seem to think I should have automatically lost because I was summoned by an almighty Doctor.
Total shame.
Total exaggeration.
In the spirit of collegial cooperation, unless you are rushing to give an urgent timed med or something life-saving, it is simple courtesy to speak with the doctor about their patient when they ask. This particular surgeon was a jerk in the way he asked, true, but OP, you weren't particularly cooperative, either.
You only "lose" when you play the game. In other words, if you don't want to lose, don't engage, especially when the odds aren't in your favor.
I see in your later post that you realize your role in this altercation. Good luck, OP. I hope you have learned something from this and that it will help you to be a happier nurse.
How he treated the patient and nurse was just wrong. Ridiculous that the charge nurse didn't actually take charge in a serious and professional manner. Their is no justification for his actions.
Shame on both of you and your immature egos.
I never would have told the surgeon that his patient was upset with him. That harmed the patient. I would have told him she had been weepy all day and that it seemed to be some post op blues. I would want to encourage an empathic response from the surgeon to his patient, not send him in there all riled up.
I don't think you yet realize what you did. It was much worse than him losing his **** in front of everyone. It was permanently damaging what you did. You'll get over him being an ass but do you think your patient will ever get over him being hostile towards her when she was so vulnerable. That was a classic mind ****.
It has nothing to do with the nurse/physician relationship. It's about being a mature decent person who isn't all about themselves.
I never would have told the surgeon that his patient was upset with him. That harmed the patient. I would have told him she had been weepy all day and that it seemed to be some post op blues. I would want to encourage an empathic response from the surgeon to his patient, not send him in there all riled up.
I don't think you yet realize what you did. It was much worse than him losing his **** in front of everyone. It was permanently damaging what you did. You'll get over him being an ass but do you think your patient will ever get over him being hostile towards her when she was so vulnerable. That was a classic mind ****.
It has nothing to do with the nurse/physician relationship. It's about being a mature decent person who isn't all about themselves.
Whoa, Lib. I don't like the shame on you stuff, but you know what? I never thought about: "I never would have told the surgeon the patient was upset with him"
Patients are often highly stressed post op, in body and mind. It is a vulnerable relationship. The reason many surgeons have the God ego is because patients kind of need them to be.
I didn't look at it that way, and I'm 20 years in.
Whoa, Lib. I don't like the shame on you stuff, but you know what? I never thought about: "I never would have told the surgeon the patient was upset with him"
Patients are often highly stressed post op, in body and mind. It is a vulnerable relationship. The reason many surgeons have the God ego is because patients kind of need them to be.
I didn't look at it that way, and I'm 20 years in.
Interesting. Thank you.
I apologize for the shaming, that wasn't necessary.
(I'm just now digging in on this thread and apologize for quoting and responding on a page 1 comment when there have been pages since.)
I have to say that I am actually surprised that this is so far the growing general consensus. And boy am I extremely thankful right now that (for the most part) I work with doctors who are equally as respectful of my time and work as I am of theirs. If I'm in the line waiting to pull meds, I will let them know that I will look up absolutely everything they need, but I need to call them back in a few minutes. That is a reasonable response. The only time I'll get out of that line is the rare instance it's a private practice doctor who can't look it up themselves because they're not near a computer with access.
Look, if it's not an emergency and you're actually in the middle of something that can't or shouldn't be interrupted, it's okay to say that. And these docs I work with know I don't just blow them off. They also know things I CAN stop doing, I will stop for them and give them whatever info, item, or charting/entering orders they need. This does go both ways.
Yes. So agree with you, ixchel!
I guess I picture the OP quoting what the pt told her to the surgeon - we are told to document quotes so it seems repeating a quote shouldn't get a person in trouble. And for the surgeon to throw a hissy fit to the patient -I'd have been more upset if the OP hadn't put a stop to it.
Next if I am ready to pull medd and the surgeon is *sitting in front of a computer* and wants me to leave and look it up for him, that seems awfully childish. We talk about setting boundaries for patients, why not for a physician?
That's understandable , but I have 6 patients . Not just his and I was answering his questions. I didn't have be exact time the medication was given and I explained that to him and gave him the information that I did have. With only one machine to pull meds from, you move and you lose your spot. There was no dramatic pressing information that only I could access that warranted abandoning my mission over his demand.
I am all about the patient but he also needs to learn how to access information in the computer himself.
This. Setting everything else aside, I absolutely agree that more doctors need to look information up themselves. Unless I'm currently on the computer charting or am doing nothing (ha, ya right) then they can do it. Where I work, docs all have to log in to place orders etc. It's not beyond their capabilities to take 2 min to do it themselves. They are busy, but so are we.
I guess I'm part of the 1% who wouldn't have dropped what I was doing to login to the computer right that second. Especially with a doctor acting like that. I would have told the doc that I can help him/her in a couple of minutes. Doctors have their own log in to the medical record for a reason. OP could have dropped everything. ..logged in... told the doc when the med was given... and then most likely the doc would have logged OP out 5 min later to get on the computer and place orders. That's wasted time, and no one has time to waste. I'm not saying I never look things up for doctors. .. I'm just saying that from what OP posted, she/he was busy and the doctor was more than capable of looking the information up for themself. And the doc was certainly capable of asking the OP for the info in a more respectful manner. The patient was not harmed because OP didn't stop pulling meds to look the info up...the med was already given.
Furthermore, what OP described is workplace bullying. Bullying has been a hot topic in schools, but the sad thing is that it has gone on for years in the medical field, largely ignored. The Joint Commission has standards against disruptive behaviors at work. It is not on nurses alone to ensure the nurse/physician relationship is collegial. When physicians and nurses cannot work with one another in a respectful manner, the patients suffer. Proper communication stops. Medical errors happen. The JC strongly suggests facilities create policies that foster workplace environments where safety is not undermined. OP's spineless nurse manager should know this and should have defended OP. If this doctor thinks OP and the manager are "just nurses" then maybe someone should set the doc straight. And - yes, the bullying goes all ways. It's not just doctors being mean to nurses. In this case, the doctor even bullied his/her own patient!! That's outrageous! And the management is not concerned about this doctor ruining their satisfaction scores by yelling at patients!?
OP, I don't think you are totally blameless here. You did perpetuate the situation some. .....but part of myself would have also because I would have been angry about being treated so disrespectfully. In the future, let the patients tell the doctors they are unhappy with them themselves. I do think the doctor sounds like a royal **** . Money maker or not, it's not right and should not be tolerated. Facilities need to be held responsible to JC standards and that includes going to the money maker physicians and setting them straight. I do think it's more than time for this "yes doctor, let me drop everything for you doctor" crap to end. Shame on your nurse manager for not defending you and shame on her for not speaking with this doc about the "just a nurse" attitude. I work with incredible, respectful doctors that would never talk this way to me or the girls I work with. Its so disrespectful and I agree you shouldn't have to put up with it. To get respect, you have to give respect, and nurses are not the only ones required to give it.
Maybe it's just me but I am reading a lot of sassiness in OP's opening post in the way words were exchanged - the way you say something matters, regardless of how neutral the content of that message may be. There are 2 sides to every story, and I feel like there is also a lot of embellishing on the OP's part. I've never seen a Dr yell at a patient in this manner. They have their license to protect as well, so I'm going to have to say I really don't believe this whole story. There might have been some overstepping of boundaries, but I just can't picture this scenario happening the way it's being told here.
Funkymiss187
31 Posts
It address the general attitude in our profession that we have to do what doctors say when they want. Was there a power struggle ? Yes. But even those in my own profession seem to think I should have automatically lost because I was summoned by an almighty Doctor.
Total shame.