The deadly case of Mr. Hyde

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Did our health system fail us?, or was it a case of many people not taking the time to do their job or did they just not take the threats seriously. Either way could this have been prevented? Last night on dateline MSNBC they had the story of John Hyde. On Aug. 18,05 at 9:00 am Mr. Hyde a well known Schizophrenic in Albuquerque, New Mexico presented hemself at the Presbyterian Kaseman Hospital, with no appt. agitated and engaging in agruments with hospital employees. Not knowing that already that morning at 6:30 am one man (Ben Lopez) has already been shot by Mr. Hyde and this would only be one of five. Needless to say they let'em go?? My question at this point is, was there not policies and procedures to follow when a Pt.presents himself in this manner? Why was a full evaluation not done at this point, or why at the least was he not detained or even questioned. After being allowed to leave, obviously with some what a clean bill of health he proceeded to still try to receive the help he knew he needed by placing a call at 12:30 to an agency which manages his health care problems, making an appt. that he will never attend. Then again placing yet another call at 1:10 to the same agency this time stating they "he was frustrated that he was not recieving the help that he need and that if this time he did not people at Presbyterian kasemam hospital would be in jeopardy". At 3:30 almost 2.5hrs. past the time the voicemail was left the hospitals Administrator was notified. Mr. Hyde at 4:53pm proceeded to a motorcycle shop where he shot and killed two young men(Garret Iverson & David Fisher). In the midst of this spree one of the young men called 911, while on the phone with 911 the 911 operator asked if he knew who shot him and fisher said yes, which the operator never followed up on , in the midst of the call Fisher told the operator to shhh, that the killer had returned and not to say a word, the operator responded by saying hello anyways and the man was shot. Its now 5:10pm,someone from the hospital finally places the first call to the police department stating that a threat was made to one of the doctors, mind you threats have been made now since 9:00am and three deaths later. What do the police do?, nothing due to the fact that it was second hand information. At 5:49 the administrator call Robert Hyde the pt. brother notifying him of the threats and that they had called police to pick him up for a medical evaluation, which was not being done. The US marshall at 6:15pm is now involved and calling the APD but at this point talking with "high ranking officials" about the matter. 6:29pm.Presbyterian hospital is now under a heightened state of alert, 7:04pm police officials arrive at the hospital for an order to pick up John Hyde were a nurse tells them that he does not have any weapons, and is just off balance, and a little crazy. Pretty big ASSUMPTION???, whose DX. was this?, which leads to the next 2 deaths maybe mishandled by lack of correct information or the amount of seriousness involved. Not until 9:15, 2hrs now after the order was retrieved is Officers Ash and Gold dispatched to John Hydes home mind you with misinformation, 10:15pm these Officers were also gunned down. 12:11am John Hyde is finally in custody.

For more fact and a detailed story you can go to: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18127174.

After seeing this story and going to this web-site looking into it further I cant help but to wonder who is really responsible for these 5 deaths?

1. The hospital for not reacting appropriately to the first occurance (at hospital, not the killing)? and the time it took to take this matter seriously and respond to the threats?

2. The agency who did not respond to the desperate call for help X2.

3. The 911 operator who did not follow up on a name or discription of the killer or most importantly who responded when asked not to.

4. The nurse who DX. or gave inccorrect information about John Hydes weapon status or illness?

5. Or John Hyde the man with the mental illness who disperately tried to receive help?:idea:

The really sad thing is that unless a person is a psych nurse or has had extensive personal experiences with psych patients, they aren't going to put the pieces of the puzzle together until it is too late. They will know that there is something "not right" with the mentally ill person, but unless the person is sharing the messages they are getting from the crash cart, by and large, they will be written off. I'm not poking fun at the mentally ill, I'm just saying the behavior has to be that kind of radical for most people to realize that mental illness is a factor.

The other thing to consider is that people with schizophrenia have a hard time communicating. They don't give, or respond to, the same cues people without schizophrenia give and respond to.

As far as the number of nurses that actually take the time to listen to a patient? I do, and so do at least 4 of the nurses who work weekend option nights with me.

I can tell you as a person with a mentally ill family member, it is incredibly hard to get mental health services in this country EVEN if you have very good insurance and EVEN if the patient seeks help (as best as they can) and is completely compliant and EVEN if the family is all very knowledgable and supportive.

Unfortunately, it usually takes a tragedy or police involvement.

Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

even crazy people have the right not to be held against their will. How would anyone know what "might" happen?

Specializes in Nephrology.
even crazy people have the right not to be held against their will. How would anyone know what "might" happen?

I think you may have misinterpreted the word Detain for the word Restrain.

The word Datain means to keep from proceeding, where as the word Restrain means to be held against ones will, to hold back or be held back, to control, limit, or restrict.

So with that said, when a pt. with a known Dx. of Schizophrenia presents himself to a hospital where he has received Tx. for many years with no known episode like this, in this manner, would it not bring it to someones attention enough to try to detain the pt. whether it be with milk and cookies or however until at the very least a psychic eval. could be done?

Maybe just maybe that is one of the key problems in this case, nobody took the time. So I myself would rather take the chance of what could happen right then, then by not trying, and hear what actually happen later.

A few years ago, I got really tired of the ICU, and decided I wanted to do something totally different - so I went to our hospitals psych dept. I lasted 6 months - then I went back to ICU.

I had great respect for the people that worked there, and I decided I had NO talent for it. Not everyone can be a good psych nurse!

I tended to want to believe whatever they told me.:uhoh3:

This could have happened in my city.

I remember first-hand working with a male who presented in ED, speaking with wild gestures, disconnected speech, STANDING on the gurney and refusing to sit, with religiosity a main theme. He was escorted there by his girlfriend and sons who were obviously upset and concerned.

As a mental health nurse, I had no problem connecting the idea that this person was unstable and his judgement was so far impaired that was a danger to self. The patient had no intention of being admitted voluntarily to the Behavioral Health unit.

The Sheriff's dept showed up in the ED and said "This person has the right to be crazy. He has not harmed anyone." They refused to put a hold on this guy. Nevermind the fact that it was OBVIOUS that this person could not properly care for themselves in this state of mind. This is a danger to self, despite the lip service given by the deputy.

So you see, there is a lack of understanding often by the very persons that are supposed to be the gatekeepers.

Since this thread started another severly mentally disturbed person who should have been in psych hospital a long time ago has gone on murder spree. It appears our poor mental health treatment methods coupled with the avaliability of weapons that can kill a lot of people in short amount of time make a lethal brew. I think in a lot of these cases there may also be some street drug use that pushes the person over the edge but not always.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

This is so sad on so many levels.

Specializes in Utilization Management.
I can tell you as a person with a mentally ill family member, it is incredibly hard to get mental health services in this country EVEN if you have very good insurance and EVEN if the patient seeks help (as best as they can) and is completely compliant and EVEN if the family is all very knowledgable and supportive.

Unfortunately, it usually takes a tragedy or police involvement.

Absolutely true.

i thought maybe it was just indiana's mental health care that was backwards... i have a bipolar sister who can't recieve the help she desperately needs - she actually had a dr discharge her when she was in the midst of a manic episode saying she just had a cold. i also have a clinically depressed bf who when he complained of feeling more depressed than usual to his psychiatrist, he couldn't understand why, b/c months ago he said he was feeling better. he threw some meds at him and went about his business. a few weeks later my bf tried to kill himself by taking every pill in our apartment. luckily i woke up and called 911, and luckily we got him into a program run by mass general/mclean out in boston and i'm happy to say that program is actually helping him and they are discharing him next week - but only after 1 week of inpatient treatment and 2 weeks of intensive outpatient focussed directly on his needs. oh, and when his psychiatrist came down to see him while he was in the hospital he said again - what happened, you said you were doing better. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! i wanted to drop kick him.

i could go on forever about the backwards mental health care in the midwest - it pi**es me off.

i'm hoping to someday specialize in pschyiatric nursing and become a np and do everything i can to help change the system.

/end rant

Specializes in Corrections, Cardiac, Hospice.

I don't know about other states, but in Ohio all our state run mental institutions have been closed due to a lawsuit. In the 1980's an inmate sued the state of Ohio for poor mental health treatment while imprisioned. He won. Now, instead of the state funding the state institutions, the money has been poured into the prison system to treat inmates. The side effect is that the mentally ill have nowhere to go for treatment, long term, unless they are in prison. This is the true crime in my opinion.:angryfire

I don't know about other states, but in Ohio all our state run mental institutions have been closed due to a lawsuit. In the 1980's an inmate sued the state of Ohio for poor mental health treatment while imprisioned. He won. Now, instead of the state funding the state institutions, the money has been poured into the prison system to treat inmates. The side effect is that the mentally ill have nowhere to go for treatment, long term, unless they are in prison. This is the true crime in my opinion.:angryfire

Only a very small percent of mentally ill people are dangerous to others. A much larger percent are dangerous to themselves. However, when you see the amount of damage this small percent can do to society you start to say to yourself, "how is this cheaper than offering treatment?"

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