The deadly case of Mr. Hyde

[kenzy]

Did our health system fail us?, or was it a case of many people not taking the time to do their job or did they just not take the threats seriously. Either way could this have been prevented? Last night on dateline MSNBC they had the story of John Hyde. On Aug. 18,05 at 9:00 am Mr. Hyde a well known Schizophrenic in Albuquerque, New Mexico presented hemself at the Presbyterian Kaseman Hospital, with no appt. agitated and engaging in agruments with hospital employees. Not knowing that already that morning at 6:30 am one man (Ben Lopez) has already been shot by Mr. Hyde and this would only be one of five. Needless to say they let'em go?? My question at this point is, was there not policies and procedures to follow when a Pt.presents himself in this manner? Why was a full evaluation not done at this point, or why at the least was he not detained or even questioned. After being allowed to leave, obviously with some what a clean bill of health he proceeded to still try to receive the help he knew he needed by placing a call at 12:30 to an agency which manages his health care problems, making an appt. that he will never attend. Then again placing yet another call at 1:10 to the same agency this time stating they "he was frustrated that he was not recieving the help that he need and that if this time he did not people at Presbyterian kasemam hospital would be in jeopardy". At 3:30 almost 2.5hrs. past the time the voicemail was left the hospitals Administrator was notified. Mr. Hyde at 4:53pm proceeded to a motorcycle shop where he shot and killed two young men(Garret Iverson & David Fisher). In the midst of this spree one of the young men called 911, while on the phone with 911 the 911 operator asked if he knew who shot him and fisher said yes, which the operator never followed up on , in the midst of the call Fisher told the operator to shhh, that the killer had returned and not to say a word, the operator responded by saying hello anyways and the man was shot. Its now 5:10pm,someone from the hospital finally places the first call to the police department stating that a threat was made to one of the doctors, mind you threats have been made now since 9:00am and three deaths later. What do the police do?, nothing due to the fact that it was second hand information. At 5:49 the administrator call Robert Hyde the pt. brother notifying him of the threats and that they had called police to pick him up for a medical evaluation, which was not being done. The US marshall at 6:15pm is now involved and calling the APD but at this point talking with "high ranking officials" about the matter. 6:29pm.Presbyterian hospital is now under a heightened state of alert, 7:04pm police officials arrive at the hospital for an order to pick up John Hyde were a nurse tells them that he does not have any weapons, and is just off balance, and a little crazy. Pretty big ASSUMPTION???, whose DX. was this?, which leads to the next 2 deaths maybe mishandled by lack of correct information or the amount of seriousness involved. Not until 9:15, 2hrs now after the order was retrieved is Officers Ash and Gold dispatched to John Hydes home mind you with misinformation, 10:15pm these Officers were also gunned down. 12:11am John Hyde is finally in custody.

For more fact and a detailed story you can go to: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18127174.

After seeing this story and going to this web-site looking into it further I cant help but to wonder who is really responsible for these 5 deaths?

1. The hospital for not reacting appropriately to the first occurance (at hospital, not the killing)? and the time it took to take this matter seriously and respond to the threats?

2. The agency who did not respond to the desperate call for help X2.

3. The 911 operator who did not follow up on a name or discription of the killer or most importantly who responded when asked not to.

4. The nurse who DX. or gave inccorrect information about John Hydes weapon status or illness?

5. Or John Hyde the man with the mental illness who disperately tried to receive help?

[ShayRN]

God help us all.

[ritarunningfeet]

I saw this story last night, it seems like it was the system on may levels that failed. The mental health system being one of them. I know in the area I live in our mental health patients are failed miserably by the system, it is very sad. It is unfortunate that 5 people died that day, when he went to the appropriate place, a hospital with a cry for help, even though they all took it a threats.

[Ann RN]

who is really responsible for these 5 deaths?

1. The hospital for not reacting appropriately to the first occurance? and the time it took to take this matter seriously and respond to the threats?

2. The agency who did not respond to the desperate call for help X2.

3. The 911 operator who did not follow up on a name or discription of the killer or most importantly who responded when asked not to.

4. The nurse who DX. or gave inccorrect information about John Hydes weapon status or illness?

5. Or John Hyde the man with the mental illness who disperately tried to receive help?

1, 2, 3, & 4!

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

1. This is a free country the last time I looked. There are laws in this country against detainment without just cause.
   
2. Perhaps if the nursing staff did a better assessment of the patient, the circumstances around his reason for seeking care might have been discovered. I've known lots of patients who come in and are argumentative but haven't killed anyone.
   
3. How many nurses do you know that actually take time to listen to what patients have to say rather than concentrate on filling in all the blanks on their documentation forms?
   
4. There's always two sides to every story.
   
5. Who dropped the crystal ball here and should have seen that the man had killed?

[crissrn27, RN]

1,2,3,4 gets my vote too. Gosh, didn't someone, at some point think maybe this guy was a danger to self or others. I mean obviously it turned out he was......

[Ann RN]

How many nurses do you know that actually take time to listen to what patients have to say rather than concentrate on filling in all the blanks on their documentation forms?

A lot - it's quality nursing care.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

What a sad story on all accounts.

[ranchwife]

What a painfully sad story.....on ALL accounts....the lost lives and the fact that a mentally ill human was trying to call out for help!! But, that's our system for ya.....'MENTAL ILLNESS' still has such a stigma attached that most still turn a blind eye!!! Prayers to all involved!! :o

[Halinja, BSN, RN]

I have heard that some ER's are starting to staff a psych nurse full time, for just that sort of thing. Not everyone is trained to spot someone exhibiting psychiatric symptoms.

[oramar]

Several mental health nurses have posted here that they experience pressure everyday to move people in and out as fast as possible. I have a friend that was so outraged by the trend to fast tract and treat seriously ill patients as outpatients that she left mental health. She said she could not ethically comply with the demand to discharge. This seems to be related to the fact that most mental healthcare is paid for by the goverment and for at least 10 years funding has been cut and cut again.

[kito4149]

I saw this episode last night and I was in disbelief. I am not taking the side of Mr. Hyde, but he did go and seek help frome the hospital. He knew he was unstable. Maybe the nurse thought he was faking just to get a "hit", or maybe the nurse thought he was a "regular" that always comes in to start trouble. Either way,the nurse was obligated to help him when she took the Nightingale oath and lit the candle. God help us all.