The Case Against Breastfeeding

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2010

I don't think this thread should be closed. It is a fine line, but IMO a spirited discussion isn't a bad thing. The moderators will usually step in if things get too heated. That's why they're paid the big bucks! (oh wait-they're not?:) )

I agree with lamazeteacher that "indecent" is the wrong word to use to describe nursing a baby in public because it contains the implication that breastfeeding is a form of exhibitionism. I wish more people would complain about a woman's thong riding up around 8 inches above her low-cut jeans when she sits down but oh well. . .

It sounds to me like everyone but me has seen a lot of women blatantly exposing the tah-tahs to the point of an entire restaurant clientele gasping in horror as young children flee in all directions. I am telling you I lived in Hippie Central for 8 years and I never once saw that. Luck of the draw, maybe.

addendum: while I wrote this, the cool head prevailed!! :up:

lamazeteacher · Jan 19, 2010

I worked the ER when a 2 month old came in- full arrest after her Dad rolled onto her. It happens.

Was dad intoxicated or morbidly obese? What outcome was there? When did that happen? :eek:

The "wetnurses" hired by wealthy British families centuries ago, got very bored with their job doing that, so they drank heavily, resulting in such situations.......

I haven't read of that happening anywhere in the past 50 years, and you'd think that such an unusual occurrence would hit the newspapers, TV, etc.

GM2RN · Jan 19, 2010

When did I say that because someone has a different opinion their closed minded? Don't twist it around. I meant that as nurses, future nurses, whatever anyone on here is, we should have open minds (to which, the opposite of which would be closed minds) to the fact that medicine is something that is almost constantly changing. So to call someone selfish because they don't want to breast-feed is, yes, a little closed minded because in a few years WHO or some other organization could suddenly release research stating that breast-milk is no more beneficial than formula! You really never know! And to say that to use formula is a selfish choice is not a fact, it's your opinion.

It's a good thing we all don't practice nursing based on the possibility of what new research might find a few years from now, but maybe you do??? But if that's what it takes for you to feel comfortable with your decision...

lamazeteacher · Jan 20, 2010

Let's all get into cooler frames of mind, shall we? It's important to share viewpoints, rather than castigate each other for differences of opinion. At the "end of the day", most uncompromised babies grow up healthy, whatever way they're fed......

It's a part of parenting that new parent(s) want to be the best at it. In Los Angeles there's actually a class (taken by my son and daughter-in-law), called "How to have the Happiest Baby in the Neighborhood". It gave them some great pointers, but I'm mentioning it to illustrate how competitive lives get, especially when people have preformed bias about what's "best".

Let's gather reliable information, and do our best as nurses, to teach patients appropriate facts about nutrition for newborns. Too many times, insecure (in their new roles) new parents cast about for information, and get differing viewpoints about what they need to know to be able to nurture their babies. A case of too much information. Filtering through all that is difficult, especially when there really is no RIGHT way, just what works to get the confidence that leads to developing necessary parenting skills. It's very important that they strive for their own comfort level.

There are WRONG ways, but as I said to expectant parents for almost 4 decades in prenatal classes that I taught, no one looks at a newborn infant and says, "Now what can I do to mess up your life?" It's our job to steer them toward decisions that are healthy, and support their efforts to do the best they can. Active listening helps that. We need to find out what our patients know already and build from that, utilizing what they say they want and think they CAN DO.

Giving resources for educational programs at schools and accredited organizations will be most helpful. So it's really all about each unique family picking the things that will work for them (not to please others, necessarily).

Going to La Leche meeting(s) in the community in which we work, ourselves can round out our information about that resource, there. Just as we air our thinking here, it's important to listen and learn from the community. We may not agree with all that's said, and certainly as observers at those sessions we shouldn't take on the role of a nurse expert, unless we are; and have the group's previous permission to share our knowledge. :nurse:

rn/writer, RN · Jan 20, 2010

Thank you for a positive, kind and caring post. :up:

BabyCatchr, ADN, ASN, RN · Jan 21, 2010

:yeah: :lol2: :yeah: :lol2: :yeah:

LOL!! Clever! I'm pretty sure there are some people on here who are not even nurses or nursing students.

I'd also like to point out the fact that "they" won't find out in a few years that formula is "just as good" because it is highly unlikely there will suddenly be living stem cells and white blood cells along with the corn syrup solids and milk byproducts in the can of Similac.

It's a good thing we all don't practice nursing based on the possibility of what new research might find a few years from now, but maybe you do???

NJNursing, ASN, RN · Jan 21, 2010

My daughter never latched. I pumped for 9 months with her and had to formula feed her the rest when my job sucked and didn't allow me to pump but once a day in the only bathroom we had in the office. My son latched like a champ. Maybe it's because I wasn't a nurse with my daughter and with my son I was so I knew more of what to do, I don't know, but I nursed him to 1 yr old, but had to supplement with formula the last 6-8 weeks and I felt really horrible about it, but work was getting insanely busy and I just didn't have the time to pump 2-3 times a shift like I wanted. I was a bottle fed baby of a smoking mother and I had tubes inserted in my ears SEVEN times and have suffered hearing loss due to the overwhelming scarring from all of those surgeries. Was it because I was bottle fed? Was it the smoking? Both? Who knows. I just knew I wanted to give my babies the best chance possible and not make any possible risks the other way if I could help it. It's a personal decision and I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to bottle feed vs. brestfeed. Everyone has their own personal beliefs that work for them.

BabyCatchr, ADN, ASN, RN · Jan 27, 2010

I think that everyone here would agree that is a judicious use of formula. Sometimes it is necessary. I had to use formula for a little while as well with my daughter, because she could not latch and my nipples were bleeding so badly that all I could get was blood when I pumped. I had a milk supply that could feed octuplets, I just could not get the milk out while my nipples were in that condition. It took months to get her to nurse properly. I certainly resented those women at the La Leche League meeting who judged me because they did not listen to or understand my situation. I was a lactation advisor for WIC for years and LLL member, so I was not one to give up and use formula easily. It was a really difficult situation.

My daughter never latched. I pumped for 9 months with her and had to formula feed her the rest when my job sucked and didn't allow me to pump but once a day in the only bathroom we had in the office. My son latched like a champ. Maybe it's because I wasn't a nurse with my daughter and with my son I was so I knew more of what to do, I don't know, but I nursed him to 1 yr old, but had to supplement with formula the last 6-8 weeks and I felt really horrible about it, but work was getting insanely busy and I just didn't have the time to pump 2-3 times a shift like I wanted. I was a bottle fed baby of a smoking mother and I had tubes inserted in my ears SEVEN times and have suffered hearing loss due to the overwhelming scarring from all of those surgeries. Was it because I was bottle fed? Was it the smoking? Both? Who knows. I just knew I wanted to give my babies the best chance possible and not make any possible risks the other way if I could help it. It's a personal decision and I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to bottle feed vs. brestfeed. Everyone has their own personal beliefs that work for them.

allnurses Guide · Jan 27, 2010

I think that everyone here would agree that is a judicious use of formula. Sometimes it is necessary. I had to use formula for a little while as well with my daughter, because she could not latch and my nipples were bleeding so badly that all I could get was blood when I pumped. I had a milk supply that could feed octuplets, I just could not get the milk out while my nipples were in that condition. It took months to get her to nurse properly. I certainly resented those women at the La Leche League meeting who judged me because they did not listen to or understand my situation. I was a lactation advisor for WIC for years and LLL member, so I was not one to give up and use formula easily. It was a really difficult situation.

La Leche League can be very judgemental. Right what's a little thing like pumping blood out of your nipples. It's your fault . :uhoh3: I may have mentioned this before, but we had a LLL leader who died from breast cancer leaving 5 kids behind because she insisted on bf her son for 18 months, delaying treatment. How warped is that? The other LLL leaders commended her --- un- real

klone, MSN, RN · Jan 27, 2010

La Leche League can be very judgemental. Right what's a little thing like pumping blood out of your nipples. It's your fault . I may have mentioned this before, but we had a LLL leader who died from breast cancer leaving 5 kids behind because she insisted on bf her son for 18 months, delaying treatment. How warped is that? The other LLL leaders commended her --- un- real

La Leche League is an organization, made up of individuals. Some individuals can be very judgmental. Just like anywhere, in any walk of life. Many are not. I hate to see the organization as a whole get a bad rap because of some judgmental individuals.

Kerry (who was a La Leche League Leader for over 10 years and is NOT judgmental about it)

Pistachio · Jan 28, 2010

My daughter never latched. I pumped for 9 months with her and had to formula feed her the rest when my job sucked and didn't allow me to pump but once a day in the only bathroom we had in the office. My son latched like a champ. Maybe it's because I wasn't a nurse with my daughter and with my son I was so I knew more of what to do, I don't know, but I nursed him to 1 yr old, but had to supplement with formula the last 6-8 weeks and I felt really horrible about it, but work was getting insanely busy and I just didn't have the time to pump 2-3 times a shift like I wanted. I was a bottle fed baby of a smoking mother and I had tubes inserted in my ears SEVEN times and have suffered hearing loss due to the overwhelming scarring from all of those surgeries. Was it because I was bottle fed? Was it the smoking? Both? Who knows. I just knew I wanted to give my babies the best chance possible and not make any possible risks the other way if I could help it. It's a personal decision and I don't begrudge anyone who chooses to bottle feed vs. brestfeed. Everyone has their own personal beliefs that work for them.

This kind of situation is exactly why the article in the OP is sooo harmful. It contributes to this idea that breastfeeding isn't really a big deal just something overzealous people care about which in turn leads to lack of support. If your job was thoroughly convinced of the economic (and other) values of breastfeeding and realized that it can directly impact their bottom line,they'd probably make time and space for you to pump.

allnurses Guide · Jan 28, 2010

La Leche League is an organization, made up of individuals. Some individuals can be very judgmental. Just like anywhere, in any walk of life. Many are not. I hate to see the organization as a whole get a bad rap because of some judgmental individuals.
Kerry (who was a La Leche League Leader for over 10 years and is NOT judgmental about it)

I know that That's why I used the phrase "can be" rather than "is". I attended LLL meetings for years during my SAHM years before returning to nursing. I started the process of becoming a leader, and I was a leader of another mother-baby support group in my area. It was their book, "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" that opened my eyes to "another way of relating to babies" that started me on my long and interesting study of parenting techniques in general! "Mothering" magazine was my manna from heaven. :)

The reason I responded to BabyCatchr the way I did is because she related an experience with them that was similar to many anecdotes I've heard over the years, and actual comments made by them that I heard. Most of the time the meetings were of all like-minded women. I have no problem with that, but I know enough people who have had negative experiences that I don't feel I'm being unfair to anyone by sharing my opinion.