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Hi All. I am new to allnurses. Well, actually I discovered the site months ago but this is my first posting. I am pre-nursing student that is interested in becoming a labor & delivery nurse (eventually a midwife). Anyhow, came across this article about breastfeeding and I am interested in how nurses feel about this issue and this article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200904/case-against-breastfeeding
Of course we don't mind!! I had a lump too while nursing my son, and total panic set in. Since everything I'd read and heard said that, it's probably a plugged duct, blah-de-blah blah. . don't worry, etc. I tried to calm down. Then the darn gynecologist said "I feel what you're feeling" and sent me to the surgeon for a biopsy, which turned out to be OK, but maannn, that is nerve-wracking! Glad you are here to share your experience with us and emphasize early detection.
Been a while since "J", (the LLL leader) passed away- she was diagnosed when she was expecting her last child. Don't remember if it was inflammatory BC, Estrogen receptor positive, or triple negative, or BRCA1 but obviously it went very quickly. It was a conscious choice. I can understand her not wanting chemo, etc. while pregnant, but 18 months later? I think you are right. I think she was in denial. But some of the other LLLers kind of odd in their responses, I thought. They said things like "well, she did get to breastfeed him for 18 months" and "it's a good thing the older kids can help with the baby". I don't know. I just wonder if they had shaken her and said, "GO GET YOUR TREATMENT!!", it would have made a difference. I doubt it will be of much consolation to that child to know that he wasn't formula fed when he doesn't have a mother anymore. I just will never get it, I guess. I do have compassion for her. I'm sure she was scared out of her mind.
When all this was happening people generally believed nursing a child greatly reduced your chances of getting breast cancer. The take home message is never be complacent, no matter what!!
Was dad intoxicated or morbidly obese? What outcome was there? When did that happen?
He was not intoxicated or obese, and had no reason I could see that would make him less likely to respond if he had rolled on an object.
The baby was dead on arrival and stayed that way. I never saw it in the papers, and assume that since the police weren't called to the home the media didn't realize it happened. The incident was investigated by police and CFS without charges (that I know of).
You are probably right about it being rare, but so is strangulation by blinds, and drowning in buckets. After I saw that family torn apart, you can bet I'll tell every family I see, and won't be recommending sharing a bed ever again.
He was not intoxicated or obese, and had no reason I could see that would make him less likely to respond if he had rolled on an object.The baby was dead on arrival and stayed that way. I never saw it in the papers, and assume that since the police weren't called to the home the media didn't realize it happened. The incident was investigated by police and CFS without charges (that I know of).
You are probably right about it being rare, but so is strangulation by blinds, and drowning in buckets. After I saw that family torn apart, you can bet I'll tell every family I see, and won't be recommending sharing a bed ever again.
Personally I don't think comparing dad to mom is one and the same. Research has shown that MOTHERS are aware of their babies when they sleep and make shifts in movement to accommodate them and react to their breathing. I know of no such research for fathers.
I would not and don't put my babies in bed with my husband, if they are in bed with me I'm in the middle. I also refuse to own a swimming pool till our youngest child if at least five, I think most people have that one thing that worries them disproportionately.
Personally I don't think comparing dad to mom is one and the same. Research has shown that MOTHERS are aware of their babies when they sleep and make shifts in movement to accommodate them and react to their breathing. I know of no such research for fathers.I would not and don't put my babies in bed with my husband, if they are in bed with me I'm in the middle. I also refuse to own a swimming pool till our youngest child if at least five, I think most people have that one thing that worries them disproportionately.
Agree. In fact, depending on how data is analyzed, current research shows that sleeping with your baby is actually safer than having them sleep alone in their cribs. At the very least, it doesn't show that it is any more dangerous. The current push against co-sleeping in the US is co-sponsored by...wait for it... the Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association, which is full of companies that manufacture cribs.
The best thing to do is not to tell parents not to co-sleep, but to teach them how to do it safely, just as we've taught parents to put their infants in the cribs safely by putting them "back to sleep." Dr. Sears outlines how to co-sleep safely as well as discusses the research on the subject in this article on his website.
Compared to how many babies who died of SIDS because they were in their own crib without a human whose breathing helped the baby maintain his breathing? Studies show that laying next to the mother (it should be the mother, not father) can actually reduce the risk of SIDS.
He was not intoxicated or obese, and had no reason I could see that would make him less likely to respond if he had rolled on an object....You are probably right about it being rare, but so is strangulation by blinds, and drowning in buckets. After I saw that family torn apart, you can bet I'll tell every family I see, and won't be recommending sharing a bed ever again.
From "Canoehead's post # 206:
"I'll tell every family I see, and won't be recommending sharing a bed ever again."
I'd recommend that you get some statistics regarding the incidence of death by "family bed", and share them with those to whom you impart that advice. While anything that can be done to prevent even one death, should be done, those to whom you give that information might want to know the chances of that. I'm impressed by some baby beds that I've seen that are manufactured to go in the (hopefully big) family bed. The sides of it might deter rolling over a baby, but I'd want a squeeky dog toy (the loudest possible) under it, to warn a parent who sleeps so deeply that he/she wouldn't notice that they'd rolled over baby.
It is possible that dad was taking responsibility for the death of his child, when it actually was a "crib death". The criteria defining "crib death"/SIDS, is that there is no response to CPR when it's SIDS. Also the autopsy if done, showed no other possible cause of death.
When I worked for a DME company placing monitors on "at risk" newborns (siblings of a SIDS case, premature babies, some twins, or babies with respiratory problems) when they were discharged from hospital, I taught the parents CPR. Often that subject caused recall for them, of their deceased baby's demise. The "Shake and shout" step was grueling for them (and me).
For most parents who returned emotionally to revisit their grief, it was therapeutic; and there were some who couldn't bring themselves to stay in the room and learn CPR, as they were so upset. I made later home visits for them, as I believe it's nearly impossible for adults or children to learn while stressed. They would learn the functions and way the monitor should be worn at the first home visit.
I continued to visit and record those babies' growth monthly for their first year; and their parents' capability of placing aside their former experience and relate to their new baby with less fear of their demise. Usually they progressed well with those goals, once they understood and allowed themselves the grief process; and yearned for acceptance of what had previously happened.
The flaw in that program, which couldn't have been known until it was proven in the mid '80s, was the fact that CPR has no value with SIDS (other than providing an opportunity for parents to get through what had happened before, with grief counseling). Since I had training and experience in that, I was able to provide support for them and guide them.
It was hard for me to accept that they would no longer get that. I saw the monitoring and education as helpful for them, to reach resolution of their grief, or get closer to it. I don't know of a support program led by professionals who conduct role playing for that. Please let me know if you have information about groups for parents of children who died of SIDS.
Compared to how many babies who died of SIDS because they were in their own crib without a human whose breathing helped the baby maintain his breathing? Studies show that laying next to the mother (it should be the mother, not father) can actually reduce the risk of SIDS.
Please let me know where I can find those studies.
Personally I don't think comparing dad to mom is one and the same. Research has shown that MOTHERS are aware of their babies when they sleep and make shifts in movement to accommodate them and react to their breathing. I know of no such research for fathers.I would not and don't put my babies in bed with my husband, if they are in bed with me I'm in the middle. I also refuse to own a swimming pool till our youngest child if at least five, I think most people have that one thing that worries them disproportionately.
My husband wanted to install a large above ground swimming pool in our back yard, which was separated from the home day-care behind us by a three-foot fence! :eek:
:eek:
The place was crawling with 2-year olds, too. :uhoh21: He did call me a hysterical female a few times, but gave up on the idea, thank God.
I always had babies when little in the crook of my arm, but husband slept like a lump. He just snored real loud.
Here is a good article with study citations at the end from Patrick L Carolan, MD, Adjunct Associate Professor, Departments of Pediatrics, Family Practice, and Community Health, University of Minnesota Medical School; Medical Director of Minnesota Sudden Infant Death Center; Attending Staff, Department of Emergency Services, Children's Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1004238-overview
An alternative to co-sleeping is to attach a bedside co-sleeper to the adult bed.
lamazeteacher
2,170 Posts
As all groups do, sometimes one or two outspoken people can get quite far out in LLL. I called it "raising the breastfeeding flag too high", in the classes I taught expectant parents.
Who knows what the mom was thinking, when she breastfed so long when she'd been told that she had breast cancer (had she?)- it could have been denial, putting two theories together incorrectly, or miscommunication with the doctor who didn't take charge getting her to treatment.
It's known that progesterone and estrogen highten cancer cells' aberant rapid formation, but I haven't read anything about the lactation hormones doing that. It's more likely that the hormones of pregnancy caused the "doubling time" of those cells to become faster.....
And also some people become so frightened, they twist the information they've heard. If she was a "lay" person, she may have been frantically breastfeeding longer under the belief that breastfeeding forestalls breast cancer. There used to be a thought/theory that if a women breastfed 4 babies for one year each, she was LESS LIKELY to have breast cancer. I was very glad when that became less likely, as many women who really didn't want to breastfeed, did so thinking it would safeguard them. You can imagine the conflicting emotions' effect on the baby!
When my son was 15 months old in 1974, I discovered a pea sized lump in my left breast at 3 o'clock, in the late night hours before Columbus Day. I was on the ceiling and the walls emotionally, and called my doctor and any other one I knew, the following morning. None had office hours that day. Finally I gritted my teeth and overcame my reticense to change a professional relationship (where I was the professional), and called a young general surgeon who was taking my classes, and told him my predicament. He said he was going to his office anyway (liar) and would meet me there at 3 PM .
When I arrived, he said that I was "much too young for breast cancer" (at 35 years of age), and that he'd feel the lump and then aspirate it, as it was "probably a cyst". Well, the needle found no fluid. In those days, mammography wasn't done in the 'burbs' hospitals, and patients having surgery were admitted the night before it. So I was admitted forthwith.
The excision of a mass was usually done with "frozen section" diagnosis in the O.R. followed by a modified radical mastectomy immediately upon finding abnormal cells. I convinced myself (told myself a story) that I wouldn't have cancer in a small community hospital, as one only does that at large teaching hospitals.
They were just beginning to tell patients they had cancer, waking them up to do so, just before the anaesthetist put them down again for the radical, after a positive sighting of cancer cells. My doctor offered that, but being the stalwart patient, I said he shouldn't bother, as I'd know when I woke up if I had a small dressing or a big one.
I wasn't so brave when I woke up with the big dressing, feeling betrayed (by myself). I remembered that my son hadn't wanted to nurse at my left breast very much, and nursed only 2 minutes on each one, for 8 months, then weaned me, as he took greater amounts of solid foods.
Later I read an article that stated that occasionally babies don't like the taste of the milk from a breast with cancer cells in it. Then I felt terribly guilty, wondering what I'd fed him, thinking that he could get some form of cancer from drinking bad cells (faulty thinking). It did occur to me then, that my mother had breast cancer, and the likelihood that I'd have it was huge. I'd just attended her funeral the month before, following her year's fight with ovarian cancer.
I'm writing all this, to illustrate how weird the mind gets in a crisis such as the one your LLL leader and I experienced. Also I hope that others reading this will know that it's normal to have "out there" thoughts if this happens to you. It's extremely important to ditch any thought that comes between you and getting immediate treatment, if you find a lump or abnormality in your breast that wasn't there before. I had examined my breasts the month before I found my lump. and knew there was nothing that could be palpated. That was reassuring, to know it was early in the process.
The thing that disturbs me about your LLL leader, is that she may have known the mass was getting larger, and still didn't get treatment! That is just self destructive, as she found out - too late. I taught breast self examination for the American Cancer Society, as a volunteer in the '70s and '80s, and had occasionally spoken to a woman who watched as her lump increased in size, afraid to go for help, lest she find her fears were realised. That's real "head in the sand" thinking!
I feel very sad that women aren't encouraged to do monthly breast self examination as much these days, at mid cycle (2 weeks before your next period is anticipated)...... You don't want to have mammography monthly, and the cells can multiply in a month to the point that you could feel a lump. So please do it, on your back with a firm pillow underneath your back on the side you're examining, and your arm raised over your head, making gentle circles on your breast as if it was a clock, going to each number, then making the round again until you get to your nipple (too much pressure can obliterate a lump). Remember to examine your axilla too, and see if fluid can be expressed from your nipple (there will be fluid if you've breastfed within the past 6 months).
The examinations of each breast need to be done at a mirror too, when you're standing up with your hands on your hips, to allow greater visualization of your breasts. Any irregularity in shape, or dimpling that might draw your nipple a bit to the side, or higher or lower than it was before, or if fluid from your nipple isn't the same color as breast milk, report that to your doctor ASAP. There could be a look to a portion of the skin over the breast that has the indentations similar to the surface of an orange (not the color of it). That needs to be reported to your doctor, too. It's so important, as you have seen in some patients, that early treatment occurs. Well, I couldn't get off the "soap box" until I taught it....... hope you don't mind.......