The ANA really doesn't like non-BSN Nurses

RN1982 · Dec 13, 2008

I'm not a memeber of the ANA because of their discrimination against ADN/Diploma educated nurses as well as LPNs. I'm proud to say that the Michigan Nurses Association as broken from the ANA as well. In my opinion, the ANA does not seem to be nursing centered. I'd rather join the AACN for critical care nurses. ANA can take their magnet/bsn crap and shove it.

suanna · Dec 13, 2008

I'll probably get flamed for this but despite the shortcommings of the ANA there is something to be said for setting a minimum standard of education to call yourself a Nurse. If, as nurses, we decide that it requires a techincal education- apprenticeship based then diploma education is the way to go. If it is a science based career with a scholastic based format then a B o fS would seem to be the way to go. Until we can decide what the term "nurse" means we will never have the impact or unified voice we need to really make a difference in the health care system. As long as we continue to fight among ourselves no one in politics or administration is going to give nurses the respect they deserve. Aside from the AD RN, Diploma RN, BSN RN debate we still have the RN vs LPN gap.The job of an RN and the job of an LPN have overlap but they are very different in terms of judgement, education and responsibility. As long as both walk into a patients room and say " Hi, I'm @@@ and I'm your nurse today" no one in the public is going to know what to expect from nurses or what they are responsible for. In my own family I have had people refer to my niece as a nurse. I was unaware of her chosen profession but on further investigation it turns out she has her STNA licence- my siblings are still confused as to what the difference is in that and my BSN. Wanting to set a defined educational standard to call yourself a nurse shouldn't be that hard.

WildcatFanRN, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

The sad part is, a lot of us went to get our ADN because we were tired of not being considered a "real" nurse despite the fact many RN's I knew considered me to be. Now I get my ADN and find that some places (not RN's, but facilities) think me less because I haven't yet gotten my BSN. I don't think RN's themselves feel this way, at least I hope not. I've never heard anything good about the ANA and I never considered joining. I'd rather join AACN or in my case NANN or AANN (if I ever become a nicu nurse).

I guess the real question is when are we as nurses going to stop fighting over who is a nurse and who isn't in regards to degree received?

lpnflorida, LPN · Dec 13, 2008

Suanna, your post have good points to it. However I would not say my judgement is poorer than an Rn. I do not have the same education granted.

I work within my Scope of Practice, that does not mean I have not taken the same classes and CEU's over 30 years time to learn more just as the Rn's and some MD's who sat in these same continued learning conferences.

The biggest problem I see in nursing is the exclusion of everyone who does not have the so called blessed intials who works in nursing. Having seen the arguments for years. I would have thought at somepoint there would be a point of recognizing a ladder system.

Yes wonderful to have BSN or beyond to strive for. I do not necessarily see it as needed on the floors in direct care. It is why so many are in management.

There has always been room for all of us to practice.

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

I'm not a memeber of the ANA because of their discrimination against ADN/Diploma educated nurses as well as LPN's.

I found out just how discriminatory they are, when a former supervisor encouraged me to take their certification exam in home health...and I was turned down flat because I didn't have a BSN. My supervisor couldn't believe it. They would not even take in consideration my then-ten-plus years of documented QI and management experience.

Farmer Jane · Dec 13, 2008

Suanna, I agree with your premise but I think it's missing the point of this discussion. I, too, would like to see "nurse" mean one thing: an RN with a BSN. I would love to see current LPNs grandfathered in and the LPN concept eliminated, along with ADN and diploma programs. I think BSN programs should be made more challenging and science based, and the boards more rigorous.

BUT, until that happens, LPNs are nurses. I can understand having different certifications for LPNs and RNs because the education, clinical judgment, and responsibilities are different. There is no reason, however, that currently practicing RNs should not be eligible for certifications. I'm also sick and tired of the crap spewed by the ANA and ivory tower nurses about how ADNs are "technical" nurses. Um, no. They have the same license, same scope of practice. And I've got to tell you--now that I'm one class away from completing my BSN--the BSN doesn't make you a better nurse. It's neat and all, and promotes the profession, but the courses were pretty much pansy and useless.

I'm all for promoting and elevating the profession. I'm against the denigration of members of the profession in order to achieve that goal. The outcome does not justify the means. I recently joined AACN and am happy to have done so.

oramar · Dec 13, 2008

I'll probably get flamed for this but despite the shortcommings of the ANA there is something to be said for setting a minimum standard of education to call yourself a Nurse. If, as nurses, we decide that it requires a techincal education- apprenticeship based then diploma education is the way to go. If it is a science based career with a scholastic based format then a B o fS would seem to be the way to go. Until we can decide what the term "nurse" means we will never have the impact or unified voice we need to really make a difference in the health care system. As long as we continue to fight among ourselves no one in politics or administration is going to give nurses the respect they deserve. Aside from the AD RN, Diploma RN, BSN RN debate we still have the RN vs LPN gap.The job of an RN and the job of an LPN have overlap but they are very different in terms of judgement, education and responsibility. As long as both walk into a patients room and say " Hi, I'm @@@ and I'm your nurse today" no one in the public is going to know what to expect from nurses or what they are responsible for. In my own family I have had people refer to my niece as a nurse. I was unaware of her chosen profession but on further investigation it turns out she has her STNA licence- my siblings are still confused as to what the difference is in that and my BSN. Wanting to set a defined educational standard to call yourself a nurse shouldn't be that hard.

It is possible to encourage education without making half the nurses in the coutry feel like second class citizens.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

Suesquatch, the ANCC certifies ADNs. I have my Med-Surg certification through them. They are a subsidiary of the ANA.

I don't really want to get into the debate. I think ANA represents nurses realtively well, and includes all of us. I don't see their advocacy for staffing laws saying "but only for BSNs since they are the only real nurses".

However, they do advocate for the BSN to be the minimum standard.

It is possible to encourage education without making half the nurses in the coutry feel like second class citizens.

I've said it before there is no possible way whatsoever to say "the BSN should be the minimum standard of education for nurses" without insulting other nurses. So sometimes people just have to say it and go with it.

This thread really belongs in the forum where the BSN debates are and I'm going to move it. We allow a little more leeway and heat in that forum and it helps the mods keep track of it better. Thanks and carry on!

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Dec 13, 2008

I'll probably get flamed for this but despite the shortcommings of the ANA there is something to be said for setting a minimum standard of education to call yourself a Nurse.

And this probably ISN'T the thread for that old debate. Having said that, the ANA is the REASON why we haven't already set that standard at BSN.

That standard will ultimately require that all stake-holders be at the table and be included.

The ANA? The ANA kicked off this debate in 1965, with a slur: non-BSNs were merely 'technical' nurses.

Until the ANA retracts its insult, this debate will never go anywhere.

You can't marginalize and divide nurses and then expect to either represent them, or unite them in a concept like minimum entry.

The ANA is the problem, not the solution.

~faith,

Timothy.

RN1982 · Dec 13, 2008

Very well said, Tim.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

I simply think that people aren't going to go for school for this many years and be contented to remain at the bedside.

I'll be gettin my BSN simply because I always expected that I would have one. But how this aging population is going to have enough nurses generated to meet our burgeoning health care needs, period, let alone at the BSN level, is a mystery. A lot of the nurses here are vo-tech LPN's who have honestly never had the time or means to return to school.

But that's another debate. Tweety, I haven't clicked on anything on the ANCC that doesn't require a bachelor's. ?

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2008

I don't intend to spend the time and money to get a BSN. I'm 51 years old and still raising children. I don't want to waste precious time writing meaningless 30 page careplans and writing fluff cultural diversity papers and other nonsense.

If BSN concentrated on hardcore clinically relavent material, then it would be valuable. I can further my knowledge base much better by going for a CCRN certification, or merely attending relavent seminars and reading nursing journals.