Tearing my hair out over noncompliant DM2 patients!

Specialties NP

Published

I am a new NP and don't know how to "wake up" noncompliant DM2 patients. Unfortunately, a significant number of these patients are in denial and refuse to make any lifestyle changes and some even refuse to take their medications and/or insulin as prescribed. I experienced this during clinical rotations and now am seeing this as a practicing NP. Has anyone had success with this situation and can share some tips?

Examples:

1. Patient who is DM2 for 20 years comes in and says he/she eats whatever they want, whenever they want. A1C1 > 12 !!! Shrugs at everything I say. Their biggest concern is hypoglycemia, although they are only on a low dose of basal insulin and can't specify their last episode of hypoglycemia. Called clinic today to say they no longer want to use insulin and only want to be on one oral medication (I refused and said patient must make appointment to see me). This patient also has refused to get any annual lab work for past 3 years or other exams such as eye, foot, etc.

2. Another long-term DM2 patient with A1C1 > 10 and random BG > 180. This patient's biggest concern is hypoglycemia and is convinced that a BG of 150 is perfect and that an A1C1 of 10+ is just fine; became agitated when I explained this is not the case. Patient admitted close relative had just had a foot amputation due to DM2, but was indifferent. Patient had lost weight due to other health issue, is still slightly overweight, and was concerned about being too thin and frail. Patient stated they don't know what they eat and don't care. I had a hard time convincing this patient to obtain routine lab work, but they did it. I had a panic attack when I received CMP: eGFR 65, Creatinine > 3.0. I was amazed this patient was still alive! Patient was sent to ER, of course.

Any suggestions would be welcome!

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
I would consider that it is very hard for people to understand what they cannot see or feel. As a clinician, you understand the true ramifications of ongoing elevated levels of HbA1c or glucose or what their BUN and creatinine levels really mean. Sure, they may be FEELING it, but people adjust to chronic disease over time. To them, that's just how life is.

Your patient who fears hypoglycemia, I bet they had a VERY bad experience with an insulin "overdose" so to speak. Or they took their insulin and then didn't get to food at the appropriate time. Now THAT was out of the norm for that patient. That's the kind of stuff you need to dig up in your interviews. Have you always been scared of being hypoglycemic? Have you heard stories from others? Did something happen to make you fear it?

I wonder if there are certain educational tools you could employ that could show them the REAL cost of the disease? Pictures, etc. I don't know.

Finally...I know you've said you work in a rural area of CA. I'm wondering about the cultural climate there. Is there a certain religion or ethnic group you are working with? If so, I would research the beliefs of the area (if that applies) and figure out what makes them tick. Do you look different than the predominant group there? There could be a disconnect in your approach or even the initial feeling of connection or trust. It also just may take some time, if they see you as an outsider, for them to believe you have their best interests at heart.

Excellent points - I'm going to put together my own handout with pictures to drive home the risks of uncontrolled diabetes. Definitely will probe more on hypoglycemic episodes.

The area where I live and work is predominately white working class. I am half Asian, but most people think I'm white, so there shouldn't be a cultural issue at play here, But a good point to consider.

Specializes in Adult Primary Care.
My favorite saying from my absolutely most favorite doctor in the whole world:

"You can't care more for the patient then they care about themselves."

I love this!!!!!!

Specializes in Rheumatology NP.

I have no idea about this, but (especially your first patient) could there be an unspoken fear of weight GAIN if he/she was very well managed on insulin?

Specializes in Case Manager/Administrator.

Our prison population and the geriatric community is very much like these scenarios. You cannot fix this, it is their quality of life. All you can do is document that discussion were made, labs were offered... in my current role as case manager I see documentation repeated again and again, with co morbidities that would make your hair turn white and people continue to live their lives the way they want to.

I only deal with the reason they come to the office. I ask if there is any other concerns, if they want to talk about their other chronic illness, and I get back no I am OK. I document that.

Everyone in my family are diabetics except my grandmother and me. This disease has been shoved in my face from when I was born. My father died at age 39 from this disease because he did not take care of himself, he lived life the way he wanted to live his life.

Geriatric observances has taught me most people do not change their ADL's in life. Once established it becomes like a second skin to them and it does not matter what is going on. I accept this, if people want to change they will ask for the assistance or let you know what they are doing differently.

I would offer document and just try your best.

Specializes in NICU.

It's not illegal to be stupid.

If we had all the time in the world to hold their hands and really get through to them, might be able to be make a difference, but I imagine that gets emotionally taxing after awhile. Part of the reason why I prefer my population since the medical treatment plan is rarely disputed by parents in the vast majority of cases. When it is, it's usually a patient that has been here for several months and the neo and I have a relationship with the parents and can try to talk them through their fears.

eta: I often have parents verbalize back to me our conversation or what other folks have told them. I often start out the conversation with, "what have you been told about x?" to assess their understanding instead of "talking at" them first.

I am a new NP and don't know how to "wake up" noncompliant DM2 patients. Unfortunately, a significant number of these patients are in denial and refuse to make any lifestyle changes and some even refuse to take their medications and/or insulin as prescribed. I experienced this during clinical rotations and now am seeing this as a practicing NP. Has anyone had success with this situation and can share some tips?

Any suggestions would be welcome!

This is common with many new providers. We all want to cure/fix the patients and you can easily drive yourself nuts in attempts to make them "get it". The best you can do is to present the information to them and explain that without change what they can expect. I lay it out as the overall quality of their health and life is up to the decisions they make.

The bottom line is you cannot reach everyone and you will not save them either. They want to continue with their life then just take a pill to make it all better. Most will not exercise or diet and then appear amazed that their condition continues to decline.

Welcome to health care.

It's not illegal to be stupid.

Oh how I wish it was.

Between the anti-vaxers, the homeopaths, the naturopathy people, the crystals and chakras and amber necklaces and on and on and on.

Some of their beliefs are just silly but some (like bleach enemas) cause real harm.

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
Oh how I wish it was.

Between the anti-vaxers, the homeopaths, the naturopathy people, the crystals and chakras and amber necklaces and on and on and on.

Some of their beliefs are just silly but some (like bleach enemas) cause real harm.

Bleach enemas???!!!

Next, people will start eating Tide pods because they think it is medicine!

Specializes in Reproductive & Public Health.
Oh how I wish it was.

Between the anti-vaxers, the homeopaths, the naturopathy people, the crystals and chakras and amber necklaces and on and on and on.

Some of their beliefs are just silly but some (like bleach enemas) cause real harm.

Oh my gosh YES. The hubris, it burns. I used to be a naturopathic-type midwife, so i know of what i speak and can talk about it for hours and hours. And HOURS.

Its unethical and immoral- and dangerous, sometimes astoundingly so.

Check out naturopathicdiaries.com . Her experience mirrors my own very closely.

Bleach enemas???!!!

Next, people will start eating Tide pods because they think it is medicine!

There are parent groups on Facebook who bleach bath or give their children bleach enemas because they are convinced it cures their children of the parasites living in or on them and causing their autism.

I'm talking groups with thousands of members.

The enema usually causes the inner mucosal lining of the colon to slough off, the child passes this dead tissue, and the parents post pictures of the tissue convinced they are curing their kid.

I report every single parent I can identify as doing this to the police and child protective services.

I have had some patients that are do not want insulin. there's nothing wrong with putting them on oral meds. I actually use it as a bargaining chip.. I tell them that i'll put them on oral meds if they check with me every 1-2 months along with healthy eating and exercise. I've gotten patients down from >14% down to 7% in 4 to 6 monthw with only oral antidiabetics.

Also, I explain to patients that there is a reason behind why I am suggesting for them to take these meds and I explain the function of each med so that they can understand. I also don't fool around and I go straight to the kidney failure talk and if they keep up a sustained high blood sugar that they will end up in kidney failure and will have to go to dialysis 3 times a week for 4 hours and the potential to lose their legs and eye sight. If still don't comply I document and then that's on them not on me. I just tell them that they have a chance to change their outcome and the outcome of their help is not on me. I just let it go after that, can't fix patients who think they don't need fixin.

I would consider that it is very hard for people to understand what they cannot see or feel. As a clinician, you understand the true ramifications of ongoing elevated levels of HbA1c or glucose or what their BUN and creatinine levels really mean. Sure, they may be FEELING it, but people adjust to chronic disease over time. To them, that's just how life is.

Your patient who fears hypoglycemia, I bet they had a VERY bad experience with an insulin "overdose" so to speak. Or they took their insulin and then didn't get to food at the appropriate time. Now THAT was out of the norm for that patient. That's the kind of stuff you need to dig up in your interviews. Have you always been scared of being hypoglycemic? Have you heard stories from others? Did something happen to make you fear it?

I wonder if there are certain educational tools you could employ that could show them the REAL cost of the disease? Pictures, etc. I don't know.

Finally...I know you've said you work in a rural area of CA. I'm wondering about the cultural climate there. Is there a certain religion or ethnic group you are working with? If so, I would research the beliefs of the area (if that applies) and figure out what makes them tick. Do you look different than the predominant group there? There could be a disconnect in your approach or even the initial feeling of connection or trust. It also just may take some time, if they see you as an outsider, for them to believe you have their best interests at heart.

^^^THIS is how a clinician should approach patient care. If they know you think less of their beliefs, they will never be motivated to do any better.

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