Sure to Get Flamed for This

Time to don the fireproof underwear. It is 0500 and the reality alarm clock is ringing, and some people do not like to hear it go off. So whether you agree with me or not, I feel it is time to inject a little thought provoking ideas into your life. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what?

The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are?

Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there.

Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions?

After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.

Since this thread made a dramatic entrance, I've become more aware of the way the attendings speak to the residents, and the way some coworkers talk to each other, rather than shutting their conversations out like background noise. I really wanted to see if there was a difference between the way nurses speak to each other and the way doctors speak to each other in learning environments.

My conclusion: YES!

When the doctors speak to each other, no matter how harshly, it is clear that the patient and the pt's well-being is front and center. Always.

"You've mismanaged this patient's care. Why did you prescribe x when you don't even have x lab back yet? X needlessly risked liver damage, and it ended up being inappropriate per the x lab. Get your senior on the phone. I'm gonna yell at him too." And... "You've scheduled this procedure, but you never informed the patient. He doesn't understand it, doesn't want it, but it must be done. Get in there and do your job!"

When nurses speak to each other, the focus of the conversation is "me, me, me" and I most often hear this: "Why are you leaving that for me?" "Why didn't you do this? Now I have to." "I don't have time to help you. Figure it out."

We need to step back and have a more patient-centered conversation. "This task should have been started hours ago. Once you saw the transfusion order for this pt, you should have drawn the type and cross match off the central line immediately. You have delayed this blood transfusion when it should have taken priority in this patient's care." Tough, but necessary, and decidedly patient-centered.

See the difference?

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Since this thread made a dramatic entrance, I've become more aware of the way the attendings speak to the residents, and the way some coworkers talk to each other, rather than shutting their conversations out like background noise. I really wanted to see if there was a difference between the way nurses speak to each other and the way doctors speak to each other in learning environments.

My conclusion: YES!

When the doctors speak to each other, no matter how harshly, it is clear that the patient and the pt's well-being is front and center. Always.

"You've mismanaged this patient's care. Why did you prescribe x when you don't even have x lab back yet? X needlessly risked liver damage, and it ended up being inappropriate per the x lab. Get your senior on the phone. I'm gonna yell at him too." And... "You've scheduled this procedure, but you never informed the patient. He doesn't understand it, doesn't want it, but it must be done. Get in there and do your job!"

When nurses speak to each other, the focus of the conversation is "me, me, me" and I most often hear this: "Why are you leaving that for me?" "Why didn't you do this? Now I have to." "I don't have time to help you. Figure it out."

We need to step back and have a more patient-centered conversation. "This task should have been started hours ago. Once you saw the transfusion order for this pt, you should have drawn the type and cross match off the central line immediately. You have delayed this blood transfusion when it should have taken priority in this patient's care." Tough, but necessary, and decidedly patient-centered.

See the difference?

How about there are nurses who do have pt centered conversations, yet there are others that internalize those conversations?

As long as I can remember, I've had greater pt centered conversations with peers than "me" centered conversations; that's not saying it doesn't occur; perhaps it because of the territory, but there are some nurses who do that "me" talk, while claiming "team player" out the other side of the mouth, while others who do the "me" talk and walk all the time, while there are more, at least in my travels, that do pt centered conversations; at least I can say for myself, I strive to have those conversations; that's what keeps us truly in business. :)

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
How about there are nurses who do have pt centered conversations, yet there are others that internalize those conversations?

To answer this question and connect it to my transfusion example above: it's a "Buck up, Buttercup," kind of day with a side of, "I just saved you a future righteous butt reaming from the attending who WILL wonder why the pt wasn't transfused in a timely manner. This time, the damage is already done, so gird your loins."

But I really wouldn't say that. Out loud, that is. ;)

ETA: just a small comment on semantics, not really important. But, "internalize" has always been a good thing for me because, if it was me on the receiving end, I would internalize the fact I screwed up royal and think about it. If by "internalize" you mean "get all defensive and think why is she being so mean," then...Buttercup.

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Specializes in critical care.
Amen!

I don't think all "bullying" is bad. How else are you supposed to learn right from wrong? It can be a good teacher. As a society, we need to put on our big girl/boy underwear and deal with life. We are too coddled at this point.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

There is a big difference between NOT CODDLING and BULLY behavior.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Admittedly:

I am not a "young one."

I have been haunting the halls of nursing since (edited-for-decency) was knee-high to a grasshopper.

I have haunted your bedsides.

Was I your aide? Your therapist? Your patient's loved one? Your boss, even? You don't care, but I might.

I might have pushed the button that saved you when you were still learning what you were doing.

Yes, I am upset by your post!

Not every new nurse is new to the halls of the hospital. Not every new nurse is LESS than you.

Sometimes it is best we shut up before we drown. Consider me shut up!

WTH?

Uhm, I don't exactly know what you're getting at, but I hope you felt better after posting that.

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I wonder where the saying "Nurses eat their young" came from? I'm not a young'un and I'm already terrified to graduate because of what I'm hearing here. How are we to learn the ropes of PROPER PATIENT CARE if nobody will correct us without beating us down? It's called Lateral Violence and there is no need for it.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I wonder where the saying "Nurses eat their young" came from? I'm not a young'un and I'm already terrified to graduate because of what I'm hearing here. How are we to learn the ropes of PROPER PATIENT CARE if nobody will correct us without beating us down? It's called Lateral Violence and there is no need for it.

I don't know where the saying "nurses eat their young" came from, and I was a nurse for over 10 years before I heard it, thankfully. I think I was spared a lot of angst by not having a hook to hang every gesture, look, or snippy reply onto. Lest anyone think I give all preceptors a pass by saying that, I have been victimized and bullied in my career.

People have really fixated on the OP's "don't ask a question" remark when I'm sure he did not literally mean that. He meant a perfectly sensible bit of advice to use other resources at your disposal to find your answer and then ask. He meant to remember the answers you get so that you don't ask the same questions repeatedly.

When you need to learn something from someone else, you aren't really in a lateral relationship anyway. Believe it or not, we've had a good number of new preceptors come here and ask how they can best teach/serve new grads. We've had new grads opine about and thank their preceptors. We've had new grads with a few months of experience under their belts give us tips on how to relate successfully to their preceptors and get the most out of their orientation.

Aside from that, I'm curious to know what it is about this thread that leads you to believe you are destined to be a victim of "lateral violence"? I think most of us, when we read something may be drawn to the most provocative and emotion-laden descriptions of someone's experience. Text-only communication in particular leads to things devolving into a black and white contrast, but I really believe you may be selling yourself and others short by assuming you will be beaten down.

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Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I wonder where the saying "Nurses eat their young" came from? I'm not a young'un and I'm already terrified to graduate because of what I'm hearing here. How are we to learn the ropes of PROPER PATIENT CARE if nobody will correct us without beating us down? It's called Lateral Violence and there is no need for it.

Why don't you wait to see how your co-workers treat you before you go getting all het up about lateral violence that you have not experienced? If you go into your job expecting problems with others, you'll surely find them.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I wonder where the saying "Nurses eat their young" came from? I'm not a young'un and I'm already terrified to graduate because of what I'm hearing here. How are we to learn the ropes of PROPER PATIENT CARE if nobody will correct us without beating us down? It's called Lateral Violence and there is no need for it.

Don't let what you read scare you. There's no more "young eating" or lateral violence in nursing than there is any place else; there's just more talking about it. The saying "nurses eat their young" made some researcher and author a ton of money . . . . and I don't even think it was a valid theory to start with.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Home Health.

I first heard the phrase "nurses eat their young" in nursing school, from numerous instructors, all of whom had been nurses for at least 10 years. I doubt they were *all* imagining things.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I first heard the phrase "nurses eat their young" in nursing school, from numerous instructors, all of whom had been nurses for at least 10 years. I doubt they were *all* imagining things.

No, but they were probably seduced by the popular book that was out there about nurses eating their young.

It's a nice theory, isn't it. If nurses eat their young, then any problems I, as a new grad, have fitting in to the workplace or getting up to speed with my skills, knowledge base or critical thinking aren't my fault. It's all because nurses eat their young. Not my fault! I don't have to take responsibility for getting along with co-workers or learning the job. It's all about those other people, those nurses who are eating their young.

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