Stop applying to the USA

swsh10 · Nov 29, 2008

I'm a foreign nurse grad and have worked here in the US for 17 yrs now. I have proven myself (as evidenced by my passing all required tests after just one take, my being a fast learner, my patients' and my employers' satisfaction with my work - despite not initially being exposed to US hosp tech). I've paid my dues; it's just unfortunate that other FNGs won't get the chance at the moment. It took me 2 1/2 years from the time I graduated (in 1989)to get to the US (the persian gulf war was ongoing then). It seemed like forever but I found things to do to make my time worthwhile. It is unfair to douse others' hopes.At the same time FNGs need to be realistic about timetables and focus on their present need. Apply if you must (or if you still could afford to) but don't let it be the center of your life. I've recently talked to more americans who are now going into nursing more for the financial reason, sad to say. I don't think anyone can last years in this profession unless they have the passion for it though.

aelsa3 · Nov 29, 2008

After all the information that have been given in this forum, is it time for Philippine nurses to stop applying for the USA? The hard economic conditions and visa unavailability seems to point to this. What's your take on this, nurses?

I am willing to agree with you even though I am one of those who have been waiting patiently for almost 3 years now (PD-05).

If I had known what I know now...there is no way that I would have bothered finding an employer and filed for green card!!

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

After all the information that have been given in this forum, is it time for Philippine nurses to stop applying for the USA? The hard economic conditions and visa unavailability seems to point to this. What's your take on this, nurses?

:up: :clphnds::clphnds::clphnds:

I agree 100%.

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

here you go:
check the rate of first time foreign nurses failing nclex
https://www.ncsbn.org/pdfs/nclex_fact_sheet.
the migration of nurses: trends and policies
author(s): buchan j, sochalski j
source: bulletin of the world health organization volume: 82 issue: 8 pages: 587-594 published: aug 2004
us nurse labor market dynamics are key to global nurse sufficiency.
aiken lh.
center for health outcomes and policy research, university of pennsylvania, center for health outcomes and policy research, philadelphia, pa 19104-6096, usa.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/23/3/78

ah ha.

"the hiring facilities. although hospitals agree that the initial cost of recruiting foreign nurses is higher than that of hiring domestic nurses, many feel that they save money in the long run because of reduced turnover and the agency’s assurance of full or partial remuneration if recruited nurses fail their contractual obligations. recruiting abroad may also be less costly than raising salaries, increasing benefits, and providing other economic incentives needed to retain domestic nurses. under the terms and conditions of hiring foreign nurses from recruiting agencies, therefore, hospitals enter into a relatively risk-free arrangement that provides further incentive for procuring staff abroad. strategies for such recruitment at one facility are described in a 2003 aha report on workplace innovations.38 "

bingo.

that's what it's all about. if us hospitals bring in nurses from overseas, those nurses are contractually obligated to put up with the bs and poor working conditions.

if they quit, they must pay back a huge amount of money. o'grady-peyton charges foreign nurses brought to the us $40,000. (2006 rate) to break their contract.

and...by bringing in foreign nurses, the health care industry does not have to deal with improving working conditions and paying fair wages in order to retain american nurses.

it's not about any "shortage"- it's about what's cheaper for the health care corporations.

it's the same as gm and the it industry moving their jobs overseas. it's why almost everything we buy is made in china, and it's the primary reason nurses are brought to the us from abroad: it's cheaper.

it has nothing to do with some mythical shortage.

our jobs are being "in-sourced" because employers don't want to pay for us, deal with us, or retain us.

wake up- american nurses!

Aviationurse · Nov 29, 2008

ah ha.
"the hiring facilities. although hospitals agree that the initial cost of recruiting foreign nurses is higher than that of hiring domestic nurses, many feel that they save money in the long run because of reduced turnover and the agency's assurance of full or partial remuneration if recruited nurses fail their contractual obligations. recruiting abroad may also be less costly than raising salaries, increasing benefits, and providing other economic incentives needed to retain domestic nurses. under the terms and conditions of hiring foreign nurses from recruiting agencies, therefore, hospitals enter into a relatively risk-free arrangement that provides further incentive for procuring staff abroad. strategies for such recruitment at one facility are described in a 2003 aha report on workplace innovations.38 "
bingo.
that's what it's all about. if us hospitals bring in nurses from overseas, those nurses are contractually obligated to put up with the bs and poor working conditions.
if they quit, they must pay back a huge amount of money. o'grady-peyton charges foreign nurses brought to the us $40,000. (2006 rate) to break their contract.
and...by bringing in foreign nurses, the health care industry does not have to deal with improving working conditions and paying fair wages in order to retain american nurses.
it's not about any "shortage"- it's about what's cheaper for the health care corporations.
it's the same as gm and the it industry moving their jobs overseas. it's why almost everything we buy is made in china, and it's the only reason nurses are brought to the us from abroad: it's cheaper.
it has nothing to do with some mythical shortage.
our jobs are being "in-sourced" because employers don't want to pay for us, deal with us, or retain us.
wake up- american nurses!

ive met a couple of philippine nurses who came in my neck of the woods x2 years ago "who got one of the 50,000 us visas" and are working as babysitters, etc because the agencies that recruited them were real bad...hh agencies that recruited them gave them

1. the bottom low salaries in the dangerously bad areas ie gangbanger/bulletflying areas...

2. have them sign x2 year contracts, and have the new arrival philippine nurses live in basement of the house of don ....

3. have the nurses pay 10,000 dollars if they break their 2 year contract...

4. train nurses to do "whatever they tell them to do".. regarding hh paperwork for medicare reimbursement....

thanks for the post...valerie salva... :yeah:

Aviationurse · Nov 29, 2008

in addition

5. 300 HH agencies are owned by filipinos in my state not necessarily nurses and they programmed the newly arrived nurses to speak "Maam" to DON at all times... a bit like kindergarten instead of grown ups.

6. the HH agency owners can afford a} to buy mercedes to all their kids and families and study at top notch schools b} DON can have tummy tuck, botox, etc c} go to hawaii at the drop of a hat 4} invite top philippine performers /actors/actress in their office 5} have the face of the DON in the front page of philippine newspapers and receive the 'HUMANITARIAN AWARD OF THE YEAR"...

7. the nurses who have completed the 2 year contract with them are now "so happy" their contract was over and working elsewhere.....

Great thread valeriesalva.....

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

I experienced a similar situation with a different group of foreign trained nurses. The agency I worked for had a scam of recruiting patients ( who didn't qualify for home care) and providing newly minted foreign nurses who spoke the patient's tongue to do the visits. Medicare and Medcaid closed the agency.

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

I guess I would be considered the only "American" born person who isn't going to discourage a foreign nurse to apply to the US. If they're made aware of the situation and still wish to continue to apply although the chances of a visa are slim to none, then so be it. But my advise to these foreign nurses is TO HAVE PLAN B READY because that's the route they're most likely going to have to take. If they want to continue to waste their money then let them do so. They know that they're wasting their money, and I hate to see them do that, but that's their choice.

Now as for quality of education from the Philippines, I'm not seeing it from the recent new grads that have come here in the past couple of years. I'm sorry, but that's the straight truth. I'm a firm believer that their education (along with other foreign grads) must be evaluated and if they're wishing to work here, then it should be required of them to take an additional 6 months-1 year bridge program to adjust to the standards here. Nursing education is different from country to country and therefore they need to be made aware of the standards here in the US and be held to those standards. It should be required that they take clinical rotations to adhere to the policy and procedures on how we do things here. I don't care if one has a BSN, MSN or PhD in nursing from their home country, it doesn't matter because their education isn't valid here until it's been evaluated by the state board. Education and passing bridge program should be validated before being allowed to sit for the NCLEX. These are peoples lives that we're dealing with, and there is no price on that life. I know some are going to disagree with me but tuff tonails deal.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

I guess I would be considered the only "American" born person who isn't going to discourage a foreign nurse to apply to the US.

What am I, chopped liver?

allnurses Guide · Nov 29, 2008

Alexk49 - many foreign nurses have english as a second language. Of course the passing rate for foreign graduates is lower than for US-born staff. That may not have anything to do with the quality of their education, but rather their ability to interpret the exam.

Valerie, this is true in many cases. HOWEVER - you can't tar all employers OR foreign nurses with the same brush. I was directly employed by a hospital - no agency involved. I can leave whenever I want with no penalty. I get an similar (actually higher) wage as my colleagues, due to my training and experience which was desired by my employer. I do not have to put up with poor conditions, pay or treatment (and indeed, I would not).

There is no doubt that there are unscrupulous agencies, healthcare facilities, immigration lawyers/consultants etc, and it's the foreign nurses' responsibility to find out the ramifications of their actions and to ensure those working for them are working in their best interests.

To say that "the only reason nurses are brought to the US from abroad" is that "It's cheaper" is simplistic, inaccurate and offensive.

Valerie Salva, BSN, RN · Nov 29, 2008

Okay, I will say that the primary reason nurses are brought to the US from overseas is because it's cheaper.

Nurse!Nurse!Hello? · Nov 30, 2008

Alexk49 - many foreign nurses have english as a second language. Of course the passing rate for foreign graduates is lower than for US-born staff. That may not have anything to do with the quality of their education, but rather their ability to interpret the exam.

OK, let's examine the statistics.

Percentage of US-educated nurses who passed the NCLEX in 2008: 82%

Percentage of foreign-educated nurses who passed: 36.8%

So your comments sound plausible until you dig a little deeper.

Here's where it gets interesting:

Percentage of Filipino nurses who passed the NLE in June, 2008: 43%

The majority of Filipino nurses can't even pass their own exam. That is clearly an issue with the "quality of their education." There can be no other explanation. If US-educated nurses had such an abysmal rate of passing the NCLEX, there would be a major investigation!