STNAs may be out to get you! -???

soulofme · Jul 30, 2008

i guess we're not in kansas anymore:eek:

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

Coworker retaliation can happen in any work environment, not just nursing.

I would strongly encourage those who were falsely accused and wrongly terminated to go after the management that did a suboptimal investigation of the allegations.

Xbox Live Addict · Jul 30, 2008

This is an exerpt from a blog I read today. Sounds scary, and thought you'd all like to know to keep an eye on your back. Original link follows.
"Do you work in a nursing home or assisted living as a nurse? If so I am sure you work with CNAs, STNAS, and other nursing assistants.
Be Careful! I have spoke with four nurses this year (two in the last month and half) who disciplined (informally) STNAs or who were perceived as "being hard" on STNAs by encouraging the STNAs "do to their job" and all 4 nurses have been accused of patient abuse or neglect by the STNAs later down the road.
Guess what? STNAs for the most part are not licensed by the State Board of Nursing and even if they are licensed, STNAS and CNAs do not have "as much to lose" as a nurse who is terminated, reported to the State Department of Health or another agency and investigated, and also reported to the State Board of Nursing or Attorney General's office and investigated."
http://advocatefornurses.typepad.com/my2cents/2008/07/if-you-are-a-nurse-in-a-nursing-home-be-careful-stnas-may-be-out-to-get-you.html

CNAs are certified by the state health department here, and no, they don't have "as much to lose". CNAs for the most part are cooperative with charge nurses. I haven't run into any yet that was vindictive enough to make a false accusation against a nurse, but the environment certainly exists.

Filing a false criminal accusation against another person is itself a criminal offense. Are there similar statutes for someone who makes a report to the BON in bad faith?

heron, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

i guess we're not in kansas anymore:eek:

yep ... sounds like an sdn post about mid-levels!

as others have pointed out, there's malicious reporting going on in all fields, not just nursing.

meanwhile, consider who profits from a divided workforce.

realistically, we do have to watch our backs when working with anyone with a character disorder, whether above, below or on the same level with us in the institutional hierarchy ... and most of us can spot them within a short time on a job.

however, if i have a choice, i'd rather be an ally to my techs, rather than an opponent.

the "suits" in my organization make me a heck of a lot more nervous than the cnas!

Transplant Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

Filing a false criminal accusation against another person is itself a criminal offense. Are there similar statutes for someone who makes a report to the BON in bad faith?

To my knowledge this is part of the problem. Bad faith is difficult to prove in any setting, at least without hefty legal bills. Everyday we are made to put our licenses at risk, and all it would require is one tech to screw you. Though I agree they ae our allies, it only takes one. Unfortunately our BON is made of "white collar" nurses who no longer face patients (most of them), and they are increasingly critical of the soldiers in out field. United we stand; divided we fall.

We need activism, and an alliance with patients whom are losing out in this battle. That is the only way we will have the manpower to stand up against the injustices.

heron, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

To my knowledge this is part of the problem. Bad faith is difficult to prove in any setting, at least without hefty legal bills. Everyday we are made to put our licenses at risk, and all it would require is one tech to screw you. Though I agree they ae our allies, it only takes one. Unfortunately our BON is made of "white collar" nurses who no longer face patients (most of them), and they are increasingly critical of the soldiers in out field. United we stand; divided we fall.
We need activism, and an alliance with patients whom are losing out in this battle. That is the only way we will have the manpower to stand up against the injustices.

So ... who's the adversary? Our techs or the suits who use a bogus accusation as an excuse to mess with us?

Shyte rolls downhill and I am wary of any attempt to make the relationship between me and the techs I work with an adversarial one.

Sure, it only takes one tech to screw you ... ditto for a vengeful doctor, a borderline RN, an abusive manager, a dishonest clerk, whatever.

If I'm wasting my time guarding against fellow care-givers, I'm not looking at who's really profiting from all the antagonism.

Now I'm off to read the blog you cited in the OP. Maybe I can figure out where this is coming from.

walkingon, CNA, LPN · Jul 30, 2008

As a STNA in a LTC facility who is also a nursing student, I take issue with the statement that I would have "nothing to lose" should I become entangled in retaliation against a nurse. What if my name, around my graduation time, were flagged on the state registry as being involved in some kind of dispute against a nurse for potential employers to see?

As an aide I don't have AS MUCH to lose, but somehow I don't think I'd come away from something like that unblemished. Anyway, if I do my job, my residents are well taken care of and no one has to ride my you-know-what, which is the point, right? :loveya:

noc4senuf · Jul 30, 2008

I work in St Paul and have also worked in WI. I have never in my years seen another staff person turn a nurse into the BON. I myself have reported nurses for things such as drug abuse and neglect. Therefore, I know it is not just as simple as picking up the telephone and making a call. There are multiple pages of forms to fill out with detailed information to provide, including MARS,TARS, Nurses notes, etc. I don't know how something that is not proven to be true, reported on.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 30, 2008

To my knowledge this is part of the problem. Bad faith is difficult to prove in any setting, at least without hefty legal bills. Everyday we are made to put our licenses at risk, and all it would require is one tech to screw you. Though I agree they ae our allies, it only takes one. Unfortunately our BON is made of "white collar" nurses who no longer face patients (most of them), and they are increasingly critical of the soldiers in out field. United we stand; divided we fall.
We need activism, and an alliance with patients whom are losing out in this battle. That is the only way we will have the manpower to stand up against the injustices.

I agree...it only takes one. I have not seen nurses turned into the BON by CNAs per se, but I have seen aides sabotage nurses. For example, 'placing' patients on the floor, saying that they fell, and the nurses have to stop what they are doing to assess, write incident reports, call the doctor, etc. happened when I was an aide. I didn't witness the actual acts, but the aides that did these things would tell me about it later. Sometimes, they would do this to several patients on one floor, just to gripe the nurses' nerves. Not reporting vital signs or physical changes, forging vitals and fingersticks, where the patient will not get the correct coverage, not reporting falls or injuries...a whole host of things. I am the FIRST to say that it is NOT ALL OF THEM, or even MANY of THEM. But, I have heard of quite a few from the aides that would tell me. This lead to me quitting, because I couldn't handle it after awhile. Once, a patient had a broken ankle for three shifts before it was finally observed, and the situation was reported to the state. Nothing ensued behind it (meaning that the nurse was still working later), but, I do believe that it can take just one bad apple.

And, as you said, most of these nurses on the BON are far removed from the field, and sometimes the rules they enforce are unrealistic. I do believe that with certification, the CNAs bear a level of responsibility, but what about hospitals? Most of the CNAs, PCAs and techs working in the hospitals in my area certifications were expired because our hospitals will not pay for recerting their aides. A bad mistake, in my opinion. All medical personnel that has direct patient care needs to be certified, in my opinion. What I see is not so much the aide themselves actually calling the BON, but circumstances spiraling to the point where the situation itself warrented a report to the State and needs investigation...the last thing a caring, competent nurse needs.

Transplant Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 31, 2008

I work in St Paul and have also worked in WI. I have never in my years seen another staff person turn a nurse into the BON. I myself have reported nurses for things such as drug abuse and neglect. Therefore, I know it is not just as simple as picking up the telephone and making a call. There are multiple pages of forms to fill out with detailed information to provide, including MARS,TARS, Nurses notes, etc. I don't know how something that is not proven to be true, reported on.

to noc4senuf

I agree, this can be a tedius process, SOME places. I am only familiar with Indiana where I reside, and here it takes a complaint form being completed online and it is sent directly to the Deputy Attorney General's office. From that point the nurse is notified and asked for a response. Then when you pay your renewal fees you have the four (or so) lengthy questions to answer "yes of no." If you have a Yes, it requires detailed explanation and appearing in person to the BON if they have further questions. I have seen a few rotten instances. A FNP working at the University lives near to a large late night club. She walked home (

This is a little off subject, but just illustrates how complicated BON can make it for nurses to carry on in light of any type of complaint or monitoring program/probation. Also, any discharge/termination you have to report and apprear to the BON for as well. This also makes us vulnerable to retalliation. I only posted this as I had never looked at SNT as a threat before. This blog was posted by a nurse attorney's website. She gets the calls and shares via her blog trends in reprimands (she practices in Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky).

Transplant Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 31, 2008

As an aide I don't have AS MUCH to lose, but somehow I don't think I'd come away from something like that unblemished. Anyway, if I do my job, my residents are well taken care of and no one has to ride my you-know-what, which is the point, right? :loveya:

No offense intended to aides, as most of us love helping others. I am just stating that the shortage is multifactorial. This is something I had not heard of before.

Though I have had a personal experience which relates to it. I was criticized and reprimanded following a [excuse me] unlicensed tattle-tale who be-bopped from job-to-job tattling on professionals to gain some sort of satisfaction from being the one that was "In the loop." [i feel] my integrity has been jeopardized, and this is because of people who do not work the trenches and do not consider the global picture. I even had a letter from a physician to back me up. Long story, so many moons ago. However it caused a major disruption to my personal life and emotional well-being. I pondered whether it was worth staying in nursing. I know I cannot be the only one to have gone through this.