Still think we have the best Health care in the world?

Nurses Activism

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i heard this woman's story on npr http://thestory.org/archive the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us gynecologist on an urgent basis.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/15/132936/405

in april 2005, when i was still ignorant of endometriosis and living in the us, i was lucky enough to have health insurance (bad as it was) and decided to find a us doctor who could prescribe something for my nasal allergies. in singapore, my doctor had prescribed me "flixonase" (the foreign name for flonase) and i could buy it there for us$17 a bottle. without insurance. i would find out later that a bottle of flonase in the us would set me back us$70 a bottle with insurance.

.....

me: "how soon would you be able to operate on my cysts if i decided to have it done immediately?"

he: "anytime also can.* you want tonight, or if you want tomorrow, it can be done."

(* some singaporean style english for you. it just means "anytime.")

me: "what? really?"

he: "yah." at no point did he exhibit any expression on his face except concern, and he looked me in the eye.

me: "you'd be able to do it anytime i ask for?"

he: "ya, anytime. the sooner the better of course. just tell me, we can arrange it."

when i told my husband about the conversation, he was amazed, even with the other personal singapore healthcare experiences he's heard from me. among other things, my gynae's practice in singapore:

- is "private", as opposed to a government clinic in singapore, but still affordable. i can also get appointment with the doctor really quickly, within the same week whenever i call, if not the next day.

- never made me feel rushed. my first appointment with dr o lasted an hour. all my appointments with dr m in raleigh had never gone over 10 minutes.

- was the one who gave me a pelvic ultrasound on my first visit to him, and showed me my sonogram images, on screen during the ultrasound, and on paper after. this never happened with dr m.

comment: no waiting time for care or needed surgery.

cost for laprascopic ovarian cyst removal us: 16000

singapore: 2000-5000.

lupron us: 682 dollars

lupron singapore: 250 dollars

- quality of medical attention? as a female, and as someone who has had to get check-ups regularly for visa requirements, i haven't had the quality of healthcare in us that matches what i get in singapore yet.

if you explore the singapore ministry of health's website, read their mission statements. one thing i've always liked about their approach to health: when government is partly footing the bill, that government has a lot of incentive to keep its people healthy, and to educate the population on how to do so. singapore costs are kept affordable in two ways - the moh put it in their mission to keep healthcare affordable in singapore (and then they do it), and singapore has both public hospitals and private hospitals. both types offer competitive quality and price. competition can work - done right.

...

but the biggest tragedy i see here in the us is failure of education, philosophy and vision - many people still think, despite all worldwide numbers to the contrary, that american healthcare is the best the world can do. what perpetuates the failed system is the spoonfed bs is that no one can afford a system that tries to take care of everyone, not just the rich. and of course, the neocon myth that free market will make good healthcare system. as long as sheeple believe these falsities, bad legislation follows.

Acts 4:32,34,35- "All believers were one in heart and mind.No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.There were no needy persons among them.For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them , brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet and was disributed to anyone as he had need."

Corinthians 8:13,14- Paul says,"Our desire is not that others be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply the need, so that in turn, thier plenty will supply what you need.Then there will be equality."

Im not trying to convert anybody to Christianity here, but am using these Bible passages to show the concept of "risk shift" is an old one. Risk shift is a concept in which the population as a whole can carry some individuals who may need help without hurting the population as a whole, somewhat like the benefits of cost sharing. Or, gasp, even universal health care. Sounds a bit like "socialism", straight from the Bible!

Specializes in Critical Care.
Acts 4:32,34,35- "All believers were one in heart and mind.No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had.There were no needy persons among them.For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them , brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet and was disributed to anyone as he had need."

Corinthians 8:13,14- Paul says,"Our desire is not that others be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply the need, so that in turn, thier plenty will supply what you need.Then there will be equality."

Im not trying to convert anybody to Christianity here, but am using these Bible passages to show the concept of "risk shift" is an old one. Risk shift is a concept in which the population as a whole can carry some individuals who may need help without hurting the population as a whole, somewhat like the benefits of cost sharing. Or, gasp, even universal health care. Sounds a bit like "socialism", straight from the Bible!

Except these were 'risk shifts' among those known to be Christians and trusted to act in Christian stewardship of those assets. Indeed, when you get to the point of their leaders, elders and deacons, you find that they are charged with much greater responsibility than the average Christian.

If only our gov't could be TRUSTED with such Christian nobility, if only our national leaders were true Christian elders and deacons: I would turn over every dime. . .

In the meantime, when the gov't performs in a neutral and sometimes outright hostile anti-Christian manner, being so trusting can actually foster results that aren't in line with the creed of Christianity. Unless you are arguing in FAVOR of a strong Christian nation, with leaders that must pass the elder and deacon tests for leadership, your comments are not on point.

Jesus had ANOTHER thought along those lines. In addition to throwing the moneychangers out of the temple, he simply and curtly stated: give to Caesar what is Caesar's. He DIDN'T advocate that the first century church give to Caesar what they intended to give as charity. In direct point of opposition, MOST of Paul's journeys were related to collecting and distributing funds for 'the Saints', by a decidedly different pathway than gov't.

~faith,

Timothy.

Does this Mission accept any government funding?If not , how wonderful, but realisticly, could you see most health care facilities and programs that accept government money to be able to keep its doors open by private funding alone?

None.

And yes, if the government had not gotten in the way of the community taking care of people, making an HUGE entitlement of welfare and healthcare.

We've created this mess.

steph

It is perfectly legitimate for people of faith to use the public sphere to advocate for social justice and beneficience through either public or private means. I personally believe that if one group of people has sick leave through work that everyone should have it and that laws can be used to mandate that.

Government does have a role just as private charity has a role for meeting the needs of the needy. Ideally they are partners in meeting social needs. People of faith can express their beliefs both through participation in their churches AND through political advocacy.

Universal health care is not socialism but it is a more efficient and effective way of meeting the real needs of everyone in our society.

Some faith based charities have stollen million$ as have the United Way and others. Where did all the money donated to the victims of Katrina go?

That does not negate the value of them.

A volunteer at the free clinic I used to volunteer at stole money and drugs.

I know that in spite of that I'm not going to stop donating to it since I no longer give my time.

I love my country. If we cannot trust the government we need to elect new representatives and do all we can to hold them to their responsibilities.

I also think we need to get corporate money out of elections.

Individuals who own or work for those corporations can donate to candidates. Why should WE have to pay health insurance companies for coverage only to have them use OUR money to buy politicians?

So they can get laws passed aallowing them to take our money and deny us the care we were promised?

None.

And yes, if the government had not gotten in the way of the community taking care of people, making an HUGE entitlement of welfare and healthcare.

We've created this mess.

steph

"Americans would have to make at least 10 times the donations they currently give to charity to fully replace government social spending." "What Charity Can and Cannot Do" -Julian Walpert. The government was elected by the people, I dont understand this dissconnect and mistrust.If the government does not do the bidding of the people, WE the PEOPLE have a right to get rid of them, this is still a DEMOCRACY, last time I looked.

The healthcare mess was created by corporate greed, not our government and there is no more true welfare.I will concede that the CURRENT administration has policies that are heavily weighted toward one segment of society, business, and THAT has created a huge mess for the poor and middle class worker. Time for a change, 2008 will be here sooner than we think.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/9/1652

CONCLUSIONS: The results indicate that social adversity in childhood and fetal life is independently associated with the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses later in life. The risks increased with an increasing number of exposures, suggesting a dose-response relationship.

One of the implications from a public health perspective of this study is that improving child health reduces the risk of developing debilitating diseases late in life. Reducing poverty and improving health decreases the likelihood of chronic illness.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/9/1652

CONCLUSIONS: The results indicate that social adversity in childhood and fetal life is independently associated with the risk of developing schizophrenia and other psychoses later in life. The risks increased with an increasing number of exposures, suggesting a dose-response relationship.

One of the implications from a public health perspective of this study is that improving child health reduces the risk of developing debilitating diseases late in life. Reducing poverty and improving health decreases the likelihood of chronic illness.

Social Adversity . . . well, tell that to the "Greatest Generation" that grew up during the Depression. The way they lived would be considered poverty. And they didn't have television, computers, cars, cell phones, fast food, etc. They fought WWII and lived to lead productive and happy lives.

Tell that to the physician who fled Vietnam at 16 and grew up to start a medical mission.

Tell that to the Vietnamese dentist who escaped at 12 with bullets shot over his head as he jumped from a boat into the water. This man is the happiest, kindest man you'd ever want to meet and you should see him with the children of Vietnam.

Tell that to the author of "First They Killed My Father" - Loung Ung, who endured Pol Pot's Kymer Rouge army, who was trained as a child soldeir in a work camp, who survived horror to become the national spokesperson for the Campaign for Landmine Free World, a program of the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation.

Tell that to anyone who has ever endured hardship.

It seems to me that people want to wrap everyone in bubble wrap or cotton and no one is to ever experience any hardship at all. Actually, my thoughts are that this kind of treatment would create people unable to live adult productive lives.

There is an epidemic of obesity in children today - not starvation.

I realize that kids need food and healthcare . . . but to link poverty and lack of healthcare to psychosis later in life seems a huge leap to me. The scientists I read at MIT are looking at genetics to explain schizophrenia and autism and other mind disorders.

steph

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

BTW, Steph. if there wasn't government mandated supplementation of our milk, cereal, pasta, etc. those obese children would be malnourished.

Space, wouldn't it be nice to get corporate money out of our elections?

BTW, Steph. if there wasn't government mandated supplementation of our milk, cereal, pasta, etc. those obese children would be malnourished.

Space, wouldn't it be nice to get corporate money out of our elections?

Oh yes Tweety!

I think that is the biggest bad influence on our system now.

And I was asked if I want to give $3.00 to the Presidential elections when doing my taxes. :lol2:

BTW, Steph. if there wasn't government mandated supplementation of our milk, cereal, pasta, etc. those obese children would be malnourished.

I dunno Tweet-heart . . . . seems like we'd have to get the government involved in the most daily parts of our lives in order to address all the reasons.

Just the other day at my daughter's softball game, the very overweight (and sweet, lovely, awesome friend and mom) brought a large bag of food for the girls. It had chips, crackers, candy bars, other candy, etc. I had just gotten two cartons of strawberries and some bananas for the girls - there was a sale, buy one carton, get one for free. I'll bet mine stuff cost less and is more nutritious. They aren't rich, they don't have medical insurance.

"The average American child spends several hours each day watching television; time which in previous years might have been devoted to physical pursuits. Obesity is greater among children and adolescents who frequently watch television . . . . not only because little energy is expended while viewing but also because of concurrent consumption of high-calorie snacks. Only about one-third of elementary children have daily physical education, and fewer than one-fifth have extracurricular physical activity programs at their schools . . ."

  • Limit TV viewing and time on the computer to one or two hours per day.
  • Encourage participation in physical activity and sports.
  • Curtail visits to fast-food restaurants.
  • Provide nutritious, well-balanced, low-calorie, and low-fat meals.
  • Limit the availability of high-fat and high-sugar snacks in your home.

steph

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Sounds simple doesn't Steph?

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