Still think we have the best Health care in the world?

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i heard this woman's story on npr http://thestory.org/archive the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us gynecologist on an urgent basis.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/15/132936/405

in april 2005, when i was still ignorant of endometriosis and living in the us, i was lucky enough to have health insurance (bad as it was) and decided to find a us doctor who could prescribe something for my nasal allergies. in singapore, my doctor had prescribed me "flixonase" (the foreign name for flonase) and i could buy it there for us$17 a bottle. without insurance. i would find out later that a bottle of flonase in the us would set me back us$70 a bottle with insurance.

.....

me: "how soon would you be able to operate on my cysts if i decided to have it done immediately?"

he: "anytime also can.* you want tonight, or if you want tomorrow, it can be done."

(* some singaporean style english for you. it just means "anytime.")

me: "what? really?"

he: "yah." at no point did he exhibit any expression on his face except concern, and he looked me in the eye.

me: "you'd be able to do it anytime i ask for?"

he: "ya, anytime. the sooner the better of course. just tell me, we can arrange it."

when i told my husband about the conversation, he was amazed, even with the other personal singapore healthcare experiences he's heard from me. among other things, my gynae's practice in singapore:

- is "private", as opposed to a government clinic in singapore, but still affordable. i can also get appointment with the doctor really quickly, within the same week whenever i call, if not the next day.

- never made me feel rushed. my first appointment with dr o lasted an hour. all my appointments with dr m in raleigh had never gone over 10 minutes.

- was the one who gave me a pelvic ultrasound on my first visit to him, and showed me my sonogram images, on screen during the ultrasound, and on paper after. this never happened with dr m.

comment: no waiting time for care or needed surgery.

cost for laprascopic ovarian cyst removal us: 16000

singapore: 2000-5000.

lupron us: 682 dollars

lupron singapore: 250 dollars

- quality of medical attention? as a female, and as someone who has had to get check-ups regularly for visa requirements, i haven't had the quality of healthcare in us that matches what i get in singapore yet.

if you explore the singapore ministry of health's website, read their mission statements. one thing i've always liked about their approach to health: when government is partly footing the bill, that government has a lot of incentive to keep its people healthy, and to educate the population on how to do so. singapore costs are kept affordable in two ways - the moh put it in their mission to keep healthcare affordable in singapore (and then they do it), and singapore has both public hospitals and private hospitals. both types offer competitive quality and price. competition can work - done right.

...

but the biggest tragedy i see here in the us is failure of education, philosophy and vision - many people still think, despite all worldwide numbers to the contrary, that american healthcare is the best the world can do. what perpetuates the failed system is the spoonfed bs is that no one can afford a system that tries to take care of everyone, not just the rich. and of course, the neocon myth that free market will make good healthcare system. as long as sheeple believe these falsities, bad legislation follows.

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very scary and makes me angry that we are less important than profits

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Specializes in Critical Care.

You're welcome to go to Singapore for your healthcare.

I prefer my local doc.

2 yrs ago, I had a bilateral hernia repair. I made an appointment directly with the surgeon, bypassing my family doc as I was already fairly certain of the dx. Got in to see him that day. Appt for surgery 2 days later. Total cost to me under a grand, and, since I had already taken out a decent amount in medical flex, that was tax free and largely already put back for just such a purpose.

All in all, I think it was the best healthcare around.

Better yet, I didn't have to wait 6 months (not being able to work) on a rationed care list.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Yes, we still have the best healthcare in the world.

You always have the right to call ANOTHER OB-GYN, and if you are in unmanageable pain, you can always go to the emergency room to be seen immediately.

As far as her healthcare coverage...we have choices there to. You can choose NOT to work for an employer that doesn't have better coverage, and if you are self-employed and it's too expensive...that is a choice also.

That is what is BEAUTIFUL about the USA Healthcare system...the choices that we all have and the power to change them.

I knew of a man that had moved here from the Middle East where they have Universal Healthcare, that had to pay CASH to have his mother flown to the USA to have the cholesteral plug removed from her jugler vein (and I not a medical person...so I probably misspelled all of that)...because she had almost a total blockage, but they said it would be 8 months before they could 'fit her in'.

If he had left her in Iran, she would have died.

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Specializes in SICU/MICU and soon...CVRU.

I'm glad you got good care. However, getting so-so care from a US Dr. does not mean that is the same standard every Dr gives. I am sure there there are poor Dr's in Singapore as well. As for the expense, how much money would you make in Singapore compaired to what you make in the US?

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The point of the original post was that she was able to receive high quality prompt care in Singapore. A careful reading of her diary reveals that her original Dr. in NC spent a fair amount of time on the phone essentially begging a gynecologist to see her on an urgent basis. She waited 8 days. In Singapore she was able to be seen almost immediately for a recurrence without the hassle of referral or prior approval. One of the usual objections to Universal Care is "waiting times." This persons experience showed that waiting happens in the US under our current system.

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You're welcome to go to Singapore for your healthcare.

I prefer my local doc.

2 yrs ago, I had a bilateral hernia repair. I made an appointment directly with the surgeon, bypassing my family doc as I was already fairly certain of the dx. Got in to see him that day. Appt for surgery 2 days later. Total cost to me under a grand, and, since I had already taken out a decent amount in medical flex, that was tax free and largely already put back for just such a purpose.

All in all, I think it was the best healthcare around.

Better yet, I didn't have to wait 6 months (not being able to work) on a rationed care list.

~faith,

Timothy.

You are fortunate to be in that position to have insurance and ready access to health care. Your case may be the exception that proves the rule of financial and logistical obstacles to accessing care in the US and you may well have benefited from the professional courtesy phenomenon.

In a managed care plan you would typically need a referral from your provider first before being able to access a surgeon. The problem is that 15-20% of americans are not able to access care in the same manner as you are. A thousand dollars out of pocket is a lot of money for a working poor family where 25% of American families incomes are placed. You also have the benefit of sick and annual leave through your job and more than likely can access a short term disability plan through your employer. The combination of these benefits provide you with a significant economic cushion against loss. Each of these benefits are a form of social insurance that directly benefits you and your family.

Most of the working poor do not have the protection similar benefits or protections as you do. Isn't this a matter of simple justice and equity for us as a society to establish a common goal for all people and their families to have similar benefits and protections?

I seriously doubt that you would have waited 6 months in Canada for a hernia repair. As a universal payer advocate I want as many people as possible to be able to access similar quality health care in a timely manner with similar income protections against loss due to illness.

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Specializes in High Risk In Patient OB/GYN.

HM2-Are you married? ;) LOVE your threads and posts.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Each of these benefits are a form of social insurance that directly benefits you and your family.

And yet, strangely enough, NONE of these benefits came as a result of me expecting Uncle Daddy to take it from someone else, at the threat of jailtime.

And I'm not even in the vaunted 'upper quintile'.

I am not merely fortunate, although, I AM fortunate. But, I planned and worked my tail off to be in the position I'm in. It's so easy to discount that fact while you're divising ways to take the rewards of my hard earned labor AWAY from me and my family.

A whole heckuva lotta of 'luck' is planning in disguise. We do nobody favors by teaching them that ain't so.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I seriously doubt that you would have waited 6 months in Canada for a hernia repair. As a universal payer advocate I want as many people as possible to be able to access similar quality health care in a timely manner with similar income protections against loss due to illness.

I don't doubt that, at all.

You just won't GET what you want by the means of gov't. I don't doubt your veracity, simply your means.

Free markets have given the most people the most opportunity to move up in the world. Period.

I'm not against your proposed safety nets nearly so much as I'm opposed to the cost you intend to impose on ME to achieve it. I'm not talking about increased taxes, which are bad enough, but decreased care and decreased access to care.

If this were merely a discussion about 'safety nets', it would be a different discussion. Instead, this is about creating a socialist utopia. Such a beast doesn't exist. It never has. It never will.

I'm not opposed to your goals, per se. I'm staunchly opposed to your means because they WILL NOT WORK. And I don't intend to have that proven on the backs of yet another failed socialist system, a system that gov't stormtroopers require me to take part in.

If your utopia is so grand, then why do you need the full and coercive force of government to make it so? Why is because, in order to bring it about, you intend to take away from the many in order to give to the few. And you don't intend to take away a little. You intend to take everything away but what Uncle Daddy will allow us to keep.

Uncle Daddy doesn't have the RIGHT to make such determinations. And, neither does anybody else. I am a free man, with God given natural rights that not incidentally, are protected by the Constitution.

THIS is what Jefferson said about gov't that feel that THEY hold the rights of the people at their command, instead of those rights being Natural Laws:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

And, that is just what we did, organizing said gov't in a way so as to deny it the power to do what you suggest.

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in High Risk In Patient OB/GYN.
And yet, strangely enough, NONE of these benefits came as a result of me expecting Uncle Daddy to take it from someone else, at the threat of jailtime.

I am not merely fortunate, although, I AM fortunate. But, I planned and worked my tail off to be in the position I'm in. It's so easy to discount that fact while you're divising ways to take the rewards of my hard earned labor AWAY from me and my family.

A whole heckuva lotta of 'luck' is planning in disguise. We do nobody favors by teaching them that ain't so.

~faith,

Timothy.

Do you realize that to have been able to do all this "planning" (which included not only planning, but actions taken on your part and others) that you had reserves? You had opportunities. Others may not have had these things.

One is to assume that since you are a nurse, you have graduated from some kind of college/university. In order to have done that, you posess some intelligence. You either had money to pay for college or you had credit good enough (or a cosigner who's credit was good enough) to have secured a loan and/or you were able to obtain a scholarship. If you had children while you attended college, you had people in your life willing and able to care for them. You either lived in close proximity to a college (ie walking distance or on the public transportation line) or you had the resources of a car or the extra money for taxis/trains/etc.

Not everyone has these things. Maybe it's not luck. But so many of us are born into privilege (race/class/socio-economic status/intelligence/social support/etc) and we have such a hard time admitting that. Do you realize that? Honest question.

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I hope those who believe they have planned well are able to continue if they are too sick to work for a long period of time.

When COBRA runs out an no company will insure you?

You have no paycheck and feel too sick to advocate for yourself or to think well enough to plan well anymore.

Too sick from chemo or other medication to remember to pay your bills.

I've seen all too many patients and hospital workers go through similar.

I don't want anyone else destitute because of a prolonged disabling illness.

I can see the faces of those I cared for with ALS, MS, and cancer who once had a good job, insurance, owned their home, and paid their bills. I remember their spouses and children who would have to try to pay those bills after they were gone.

See now it is easy for a corporation to declare bankruptcy but not an individual. They give you a HSA, debit card, or credit. Then you can lose your home trying to pay medical bills for yourself or your child.

I heard a song with the line:

"No insurance just buys a little sympathy

Shame on you, and shame on me"

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