Still think we have the best Health care in the world?

Nurses Activism

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i heard this woman's story on npr http://thestory.org/archive the other night. read the diaries and make your own decision about whether our system needs reform. this patient had an 8 day wait to get in to see a us gynecologist on an urgent basis.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/15/132936/405

in april 2005, when i was still ignorant of endometriosis and living in the us, i was lucky enough to have health insurance (bad as it was) and decided to find a us doctor who could prescribe something for my nasal allergies. in singapore, my doctor had prescribed me "flixonase" (the foreign name for flonase) and i could buy it there for us$17 a bottle. without insurance. i would find out later that a bottle of flonase in the us would set me back us$70 a bottle with insurance.

.....

me: "how soon would you be able to operate on my cysts if i decided to have it done immediately?"

he: "anytime also can.* you want tonight, or if you want tomorrow, it can be done."

(* some singaporean style english for you. it just means "anytime.")

me: "what? really?"

he: "yah." at no point did he exhibit any expression on his face except concern, and he looked me in the eye.

me: "you'd be able to do it anytime i ask for?"

he: "ya, anytime. the sooner the better of course. just tell me, we can arrange it."

when i told my husband about the conversation, he was amazed, even with the other personal singapore healthcare experiences he's heard from me. among other things, my gynae's practice in singapore:

- is "private", as opposed to a government clinic in singapore, but still affordable. i can also get appointment with the doctor really quickly, within the same week whenever i call, if not the next day.

- never made me feel rushed. my first appointment with dr o lasted an hour. all my appointments with dr m in raleigh had never gone over 10 minutes.

- was the one who gave me a pelvic ultrasound on my first visit to him, and showed me my sonogram images, on screen during the ultrasound, and on paper after. this never happened with dr m.

comment: no waiting time for care or needed surgery.

cost for laprascopic ovarian cyst removal us: 16000

singapore: 2000-5000.

lupron us: 682 dollars

lupron singapore: 250 dollars

- quality of medical attention? as a female, and as someone who has had to get check-ups regularly for visa requirements, i haven't had the quality of healthcare in us that matches what i get in singapore yet.

if you explore the singapore ministry of health's website, read their mission statements. one thing i've always liked about their approach to health: when government is partly footing the bill, that government has a lot of incentive to keep its people healthy, and to educate the population on how to do so. singapore costs are kept affordable in two ways - the moh put it in their mission to keep healthcare affordable in singapore (and then they do it), and singapore has both public hospitals and private hospitals. both types offer competitive quality and price. competition can work - done right.

...

but the biggest tragedy i see here in the us is failure of education, philosophy and vision - many people still think, despite all worldwide numbers to the contrary, that american healthcare is the best the world can do. what perpetuates the failed system is the spoonfed bs is that no one can afford a system that tries to take care of everyone, not just the rich. and of course, the neocon myth that free market will make good healthcare system. as long as sheeple believe these falsities, bad legislation follows.

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

You want to call ME ignorant, and yet you seem to think (and I have NO idea how you could come up with THAT) that CBS is a 'right wing' site?!?? I think you just finished shooting your own credibility in the foot.

Oh and Geeky, you have NO idea what 'rude vulgarity' is, if you considder my statements to be such. As for our healthcare system, I have logged 19yrs taking care of patients in one aspect of our system or another, I think by now I have SOME idea as to what has or hasn't been working. I learned by doing, not by reading some books about it, and listening to professors who may or may not have had any actual tangible experience in it.

But hey, to each his (or her) own.

As for your claiming my ignorance, do you REALLY expect me to respond to trashtalk like that? Grow up.

I do seriously think we should back off a bit.

This site has rules about people getting too personal, and I dare say that BOTH of us are kind of skirting that. I like this site, and by and large people (even those who disagree) have reasonable discussions. Its obvious to me that this is getting pretty close to being beyond that standard. You certainly have no cause to encourage ME to behave in any semblance of what you seem to think is 'acceptable'. You should climb out of your ivory tower once in a while and see what the real world is like.

Specializes in ICU-Stepdown.

By the way, the Frasier Institute -which I mentioned had the list about waiting periods on healthcare systems with examples among others, the Canadian and the UK, is not a 'right wing' site either.

Before calling someone else 'ignorant', you should do some research of your own.

From the same article. It seems quite complicated.

Government licensed health professionals and facilities. It is not perfect but there are standards. Just like what we read about in Canada we have horrible things in our facilities.

Doesn't each Province administer their Medicare?

Not right or left wing. The article says good and bad about the Canadian system.

...Despite the financial burden, Canadians value their Medicare as a marker of egalitarianism and independent identity that sets their country apart from the United States, where some 45 million Americans lack health insurance.

Raisa Deber, a professor of health policy at the University of Toronto, believes Canada's system is one of the world's fairest.

"Canadians are very proud of the fact that if they need care, they will get care," she said. Of the United States, she said: "I don't understand how they got to this worship of markets, to the extent that they're perfectly happy that some people don't get the health care that they need."

Canada does not have fully nationalized health care; its doctors are in private practice and send their bills to the government for reimbursement.

"That doctor doesn't have to worry about how you're going to pay the bill," said Deber. "He knows that his bill will be paid, so there's absolutely nothing to stop any doctor from treating anyone." ...

BUT ...George Zeliotis told the court he suffered pain and became addicted to painkillers during a yearlong wait for hip replacement surgery, and should have been allowed to pay for faster service. His physician, Dr. Jacques Chaoulli, said his patient's constitutional rights were violated because Quebec couldn't provide the care he needed, but didn't offer him the option of getting it privately.

A ruling on the case is expected any time.

If Zeliotis had been from the United States, China or neighboring Ontario anywhere, in fact, except Quebec — he could have bought treatment in a private Quebec clinic. That's one way the system discourages the spread of private medicine — by limiting it to nonresidents. But it can have curious results, says Day.

He tells of a patient who was informed by Ontario officials that since Ontario couldn't help him, they would spend $35,000 to send him to the United States for surgery.

Day said his Vancouver clinic could have done it for $12,000 but the Ontario officials "do not philosophically support sending an individual to a nongovernment clinic in Canada." ...

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:lGhXSn_KfAAJ:www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml%3Fcmp%3DEM8705+canadian+healthcare&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

Why can't members just agree to disagree on topic without the mud.

Personal insults ad NOTHING to this discussion. When a topic casuses you to have a meltdown, time to step back get away for the computer... check out our blooming Spring flowers in US or take a cool shower.

Thread closed for cool down and mod review.

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